Damn lights!

[AndrewToo]

Hi guys, so last night coming home from Tesco after trying to get some cold remedies (echinacea if you’re interested), I noticed what I thought was the street lights flickering or something like when one of the emergency services is approaching. Now it was Halloween so I thought it could be something spooky until I selected reverse to park and got some headlight warnings and the drivers headlight went out and flickered some more. See video below.

Anyone had these gremlins, similar issues? Note no signs of water ingress anywhere on this side.

Thanks.

 

[AndrewToo]

Sorry. F11 2013 LCI 

😊 

[Percha]

Although I have not had this issue, mine is also F11 2013 (Pre LCI). I would start with bulb change as its the cheapest and would I assume give this issue if failing (you look as if you have xenons?, if so you need a D1S HID ), if not it will be TPS module (I hear quite common on these especially in wet weather they seem to die).

Video below on how to change xenon bulb:

 

Video below on how to change TMS.

 

[Stringbag]

Spray Contact cleaner on the electrical plugs. Got to be worth a try before you fire the parts cannon. 
I had some very odd issues with my auto levelling & cornering light motors and a good squirt of contact cleaner fixed it. They are a bit awkward to get to (bumper off on the f07, not sure about f11) 

[neil.o]

I have preLCI F10 with halogens, and a few months ago I got that same dash warning , all the lights worked and were not flickering. The car had been sitting for weeks on end with very little driving (covid etc),  and I assumed headlight TMS module was near kaput. I charged the battery, gave her a long drive with headlights on, pointed her into the sun to dry out any moisture, and bingo  - problem gone. Has not popped up again in months.  I'd rather be lucky than good, as the saying goes.

New bulbs and/or electrical contact cleaner would have been the next step, but didn't have to go there. 

Worth a try

[AndrewToo]

Cheers folks. I’ve just ordered some electrical contact cleaner from Amazon. Will give it a blast. There was no warning triangle yesterday morning heading to work. I’m away in Yorkshire in the truck just now.

Edited November 2, 2022 by AndrewToo

[Percha]

so definetly intermittent and contact cleaner is a very good first call! Hope its proves to be the solution.

[AndrewToo]

So here’s a wee update on the lights. 

The contact cleaner hasn’t arrived yet, but today as I was going to head home from work I got the flashy lights again. Including the right rear cluster this time (see video) . A work colleague thought perhaps a bad earth? Then as I was driving I got a left indicator failure warning ( see picture)

Any ideas? Bad earth? Bad module somewhere?

Thanks guys.

 

[Matthew]

I would get a good diagnosis done on the car to see what faults are logged on the modules. I assume you are driving regularly so the battery is ok?

[Percha]

Agreed, maybe you have water ingress somewhere have you checked in the boot right hand side pocket under panel? There is a cubby hole that other people on the forum have had water get in, also this is close to battery and maybe earthing points.

 

 

[neil.o]

It seems a bit of a coincidence your rear light and front light giving trouble at same time, so I'd think common cause:  Battery voltage/health, water ingress, ...  something else that links these items?  

I can see why someone says bad earth - but I'd be surprised if the rear right light and front right light share the same earth point, and if they did then other modules would have thrown errors by now. I'm open to correction though

Maybe check your battery health, and give battery a full charge (if you haven't already). I think F10s and other platforms with dozens of control modules are v.sensitive when 12V is not perfect, showing odd behaviour like control module flakiness and plenty of idrive warnings.

If it were me :  I'd confirm battery health and charge, then OBD scan or more indepth diagnosis (Foxwell NT530 is often discounted online and mine has paid for itself a few times over by now) ,  if needed then use contact cleaner when it arrives, then figure next step

good luck mate, I know these kinds of intermittent issues can be frustrating

[AndrewToo]

Thanks for the replies.

Do deffo no water in the battery area or the right or left hand storage areas( but when I bought the car 3 years ago I did, I’ve always kept an eye on it since). 

Lights are dodgy at the mo. I get more faults and erratic light flickering depending on if I’m indicating or have fog lights on.

I got these codes when I scanned the FRM

would 800E8C point toward a faulty FRM module? Or is something else causing it to be faulty?

Also noticed interior lights are a bit dimmer than normal.

Battery was replaced and coded a year or so ago. Could a faulty module be drawing current from the battery? It said 94% the other week before any issues but now says 82%

I’ve got my eye on a replacement FRM but waiting to pull the trigger for now.

[marko530d]

1 hour ago, AndrewToo said:

Thanks for the replies.

Do deffo no water in the battery area or the right or left hand storage areas( but when I bought the car 3 years ago I did, I’ve always kept an eye on it since). 

Lights are dodgy at the mo. I get more faults and erratic light flickering depending on if I’m indicating or have fog lights on.

I got these codes when I scanned the FRM

would 800E8C point toward a faulty FRM module? Or is something else causing it to be faulty?

Also noticed interior lights are a bit dimmer than normal.

Battery was replaced and coded a year or so ago. Could a faulty module be drawing current from the battery? It said 94% the other week before any issues but now says 82%

I’ve got my eye on a replacement FRM but waiting to pull the trigger for now.

You've done alot of miles in a year...

 

Was battery definitely coded.

 

Replaced mine last year always says 100% sits outside for 12-14 days at a time. 

 

Doubt that's your issue though. 

[neil.o]

My two cents:

I have seen faults related to Terminal 30B when battery charge is low on my own F10 and F15, but not that specific fault 800E8C. My take at this stage is that 800E8C may or may not mean FRM is faulty until new information found.

As far as I know, the FRM controls mainly interior lights, exterior lights, (plenty of both) and switches related to lights, but
 are there faults logged in any other modules, e.g. BDC? EPS?

• If YES then root cause may be battery/voltage or something else related (i.e. not just FRM)
• If NO then may indeed be FRM related

Based on your screenshot above, and the cost of new BMW modules,  I'd still make an effort to register and fully charge the battery and check the battery terminal/cables are still tight, even if for no other reason that it costs virtually nothing except a few hours of your time.

I don't know if registering a battery 1 year after it was actually installed will cause other issues but, as best I understand, if a new battery is not registered correctly then your car won't charge it to full capacity and treats it like the old item.

If registering battery & fully charging it does not solve issues, and no other modules are logging faults, I would think the FRM is the problem.

[AndrewToo]

Thank you both.

I’ll check the battery connections. I used BimmerLink to code it and the mileage(km) listed  is when I changed the original one for the new.

Can anyone recommend a charger for AGM? I’ve heard people mention CTEK before. Not sure which one.

Thanks.

[Percha]

https://www.tayna.co.uk/battery-chargers/ctek/mxs5-0/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAmaibBhCAARIsAKUlaKRKSpayEfFzys2OYnEEpm6oSyHp2zJCTfdlOepKCgjysss_DMd0ktEaAsuWEALw_wcB

This is the one I have CTEK5.0, very good charger and good price here!

[AndrewToo]

Thanks Percha. Got that one ordered. That is a decent price for it. Should be here tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

[AndrewToo]

Is this a healthy looking FRM circuit board?

 

 

 

I got access to the right TMS ( it was the one giving error codes) and it looked healthy enough. I gave it a blast with contact cleaner and the light unit connections too. No joy with fixing any errors. So went to have a look at the FRM and all exterior connections are clean etc. Looked inside and, sorry for being an idiot, but are the pink bits supposed to be connected or are they OK the way they are?

[neil.o]

7 hours ago, AndrewToo said:

Is this a healthy looking FRM circuit board?

From my limited knowledge of TMS and FRM, damage is not always visible.   I'm not familiar with the pink things you point out

 

7 hours ago, AndrewToo said:

but are the pink bits supposed to be connected or are they OK the way they are?

Often those microchips do not use all pins, so seeing unused traces or apparent unused connections is not necessarily a concern in itself, but I've never seen those pink things before when messing around with any board or chip (PC CPU, phone, car modules, equipment at work etc) I am an engineer that likes to take stuff apart but I'm not the electronics flavour unfortunately...  so best guesses I have are :  Previous repair?  Anti-static?  Insulator for some reason? 

 

8 hours ago, AndrewToo said:

I got access to the right TMS ( it was the one giving error codes)

You mention the front TMS (credit for getting contact cleaner in there, I hate that wheelarch access), though your video and photos also shows issues with FrontRight RearRight and RearLeft and I'd think it unlikely 3 corners have independently failed.

I'd offer:  

• If you're fully 12V charged up and you have persistent faults logged with the FRM only, then it looks like its implicating itself. 
• But if you have faults logged with other modules then it may not be the FRM alone and the search continues

 

[AndrewToo]

neil.o, thank you bud. I had no clue what they were either.

Agree that the wheel arch access is a PITA. Ended up taking the wheel off and the arch liner too to get in there. For anyone else’s info you cannot get the TMS out of my car (2013 63 plate LCI. So all onwards perhaps?) without releasing it from it’s housing i.e. bumper off. Might depend on which headlight option you have though. Anyway, I got enough of a view in there to see (with camera) that all the connections were good. Still gave both TMS and headlight connections a good spray with the contact cleaner just in case. Left it a while, dried it with Tork roll too. No joy with the fix though.

So I put the car on charge yesterday. Went for Car, AGM, Recondition setting using the new CTEK Percha recommended.

Whilst it was charging I thought I’d get a few jobs done on the old girl. Replaced the A/C blower motor which hadn’t worked for a month or so. Delighted the new non OEM blower from EBay has solved the issue now.

Decided to do some googling on the Terminal 30 voltage issue and also thought I’d double check all the fuses relating to every light in the car, front and back fuse boxes. Found the following guide which is basically the same as the sheet attached to our fuse boxes but with a bit more detail included.

All fuses intact front and back then I saw this little detail

So R1 and R2 were for Terminal 30.

A while back I’d seen a spare and intact fuse box for £12 on EBay including fuse puller and fuse map (which mine lacked upon purchase) for cheaper than buying them individually. Good job I bought it as I was able to swap the R1 relay over and hey presto lights fixed. Relieved was an understatement.

So I’m gonna take this as a learning experience. I got to get intimate with my wheel arches, TMS, FRM, headlight unit and fuse boxes and I got a new charger and some contact cleaner, both of which will absolutely serve me well in the future on the way to realising my problem was a bloody faulty relay.

 A big thank you to everyone who gave me valuable pushes in the right direction. With out suggestions about the voltage and terminal 30 issues I would have been buying parts left right and centre. This forum is the nuts, and I’m so grateful to all who keep it going and contribute. I’ll leave you in peace now. Cheers.

Edited November 13, 2022 by AndrewToo

[Percha]

Great to hear its all sorted, I bet you face was a picture when it all started working after relay swap!

[neil.o]

@AndrewTooFair play mate for solving that one

Good idea to keep a few relays handy - my own is 11 years old so I think I'll borrow your idea and pick up a few. I'm still in the dark on the pink things inside the FRM !

I'm sure your thread will help someone else in the future too !

 

[AndrewToo]

I was bloomin’ delighted. As soon as I changed it over I could see both headlights and rear ‘reds’ come on. Had to laugh at myself for not thinking relay earlier. Thanks guys.