A steering saga...

[4aceman]

Quick tip for those big nuts on the control arms - penetrating fluid isn’t gonna do much, you need to get rid of all the rust on the threads so you’re not fighting it.

Before you crack the nut loose get a wire brush on a drill and give it a good clean. Don’t bother with the hand ones. After a few seconds and some sparks the threads should be shiny and clean. After that loosening it is much, much easier.

 

For the steering wheel play, I have no experience with EPS but with the car off and steering lock disengaged do you get free play at the steering wheel? Could you measure it? If you get someone to gently wiggle the wheel and put your hands over different parts of the steering assembly can you feel any play (u-joints, rubber coupler etc.) I know they’re knew but you never know. If the steering shaft is rotating down to the rack with gentle wiggling then likely pinion gear play

[Steve84N]

9 hours ago, Andy5150 said:

I meant to add that the top mounts are also being replaced as these had shown signs of degradation too - this bumped the cost up somewhat.

That adds zero to the labour compared to dampers alone and two top mounts are about £50...

You've got one big bolt in the damper eye at the bottom and three small ones in the top mount and the whole lot is off. Even Bilstein dampers are under £100 each. 

Make sure you replace the additional shock absorber, more commonly known as bump stops and the boots. They will be in bits. Only about £15.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Steve84N

[olliecampbell]

11 hours ago, Andy5150 said:

I recall you saying you’d used CPC Duncan? Trouble is, I’m north Bucks so a bit a trek down to Amersham - would probably need to take a day off. I’ve heard good things about them though. Might use them to do my brake reaction bushes next year.

Hello fellow Buckinghamshiran....Have a chat to Protech cars (just outside Aylesbury). I've not used them before but am about to drop my 530d in for a DMF, clutch and front pulley....they asked all the right questions over the phone and when I popped in they looked professional too. Someone had trusted them with an Alpina C2 2.7 (I think it was).

 

 

[Andy5150]

1 hour ago, olliecampbell said:

I've not used them before but am about to drop my 530d in for a DMF, clutch and

Thanks Ollie and hello fellow Buckinghamshire driver! I’m now in the waiting room at the garage so probably too late in this occasion to switch (thx for the advice everyone) but I’d be interested to here what they charge for the DMF as I was thinking about getting that and the clutch done next year. Mine’s a 20d as opposed to a 30d but I can’t imagine the cost being much different.

[Andy5150]

3 hours ago, Steve84N said:

you replace the additional shock absorber, more commonly

Ohhh, I’d assumed they were part of the damper kit. I’m at the garage now so will check! Thanks

[Steve84N]

@Andy5150this is what I mean.

https://m.autodoc.co.uk/sachs/7886345

[Andy5150]

15 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

this is what I mean.

 

Thanks Steve - excellent, this is what they’re sorting for me now. Cheers

[Andrew]

12 hours ago, 4aceman said:

Quick tip for those big nuts on the control arms - penetrating fluid isn’t gonna do much, you need to get rid of all the rust on the threads so you’re not fighting it.

Before you crack the nut loose get a wire brush on a drill and give it a good clean. Don’t bother with the hand ones. After a few seconds and some sparks the threads should be shiny and clean. After that loosening it is much, much easier.

That's exactly what I did, wire wheel on a drill to clean the exposed threads.  Once I got the nut loose (1000mm long breaker bar saw to that) I then used penetrating fluid to work the nut up and down on the thread to allow it to come off without damaging anything.  Takes longer but it worked. Means If I need to remove an arm at the rear for access, I can be a bit more confident in taking it off without destroying it.

Also bought a M14x1.25 die to help clean the threads but never needed it.

[duncan-uk]

Soooooo, there has been progress....

[duncan-uk]

So having fitted the arms i resisted an update until i had done a few longer journeys and i would say yes a slight improvement but STILL not right.

As a final throw of the dice i have ordered up some parts for the rear (though i appreciate the back can affect the front) my gut feel is still at the front.

The only part left are the upper wishbones so ordered up a pair of Lemforder and bolts.

TIS suggests its not to tricky to do and the damper/ strut can be left in situ and the wishbone is not under load from the spring

TIS also suggests a retaining spring tool but not sure what that is - suspect it just keeps hub carrier in position - didnt feel i needed anything more than simple tools.

The fit of fitting bolts includes the strut to bottom arm so you could release it if you wanted but I didn’t. 

First jack up car, support, saftey, own risk etc etc and wheels off

There are two bolts that hold the wishbone to the body, the front bolt is accessed via the front of the strut in the enginer bay (you can remove the arch liner for better access though possible to do without.

The rear bolt is a bit of a fiddle and stuff needs moving to access the nut though it’s captive with a clip so you don’t need to counter hold it just things in way. I had to lift the arm a little with the Jack (not off stands) just to compress spring a touch so i could pull bolt out as it just catches the coil, you might prefer to unbolt the strut from the lower arm. 

Both nuts and bolts 16mm - refitnew ones to 54Nm

First restrain the hub carrier with a bungee or similar as when ball joint removed it will fall to the side (ie out of wheel arch) and only ABS wire and brake pipe flexi will be there to hold it. The two holes you see on the strut are perfect for the job.

Ball joint is a pinch bolt in my case that had electrolytic corrosion so was very stiff, it so needed a good dose of penetrating oil, a lot of rotating to free up and then driven out with a drift.

To remove the ball joint i first tried a splitter but no joy so used my two / three legged puller to pull the ball joint smoothly off upright.

Set up the puller in two leg operation with bigger ends and shorter arms, the tool is about 180mm overall  so only just fitted, place arms on top of hub carrier and screw into ball joint and wind away, worked a treat.

(note thats just how i store the puller, not how i used it - arm on the angle was removed)

Refit being the reverse of removal and the E14 & 14mm nut are 56Nm

Refit everything loose and then remember to torque up with load of car on it.

There is a dimension in TIS but I just lift the lower ball joint on the Jack until the stand is unloaded ie weight of car through strut and jack but still have support of stand ie it’s a hairs width off for safety.

I don’t see how you can compress spring anymore and i found i couldn't get the measurement specified, that last point may offend people but all I would be doing is lifting it higher off the Jack and as I say it same as doing it with on wheels on ground i suggest.

No indelicate use of hammer needed.

I used the thinnest smear of copper slip on the bolts assembly and all just tapped back into place - again i note the arguements on this!

So how does it drive....

 

 

[duncan-uk]

Soooooo, where are we....

Had chance to use the car a bit since fitting the upper wishbones, no big trips but a few longer runs and i think that the wishbones have had a postive effect, certainly i feel more confident with it on a twisty road and how it holds its course on the motorway.

Did a trip to Stanstead to fly to Germany and Nurburgring, so a dull motorway trip which is where i tend to feel it most and i would say its improved.

I have the rear parts to do (as if the front is tired i suspect the rear is too) and after which i will have another alignment but suspect now its just EPS I dont like.

I've been thinking long and hard as to how to verbalise what it is I feel and i think the issue is that the EPS relies on movement/ feedback before the assistance is triggered and as such I think there is a lag to my inputs where as a traditional PAS system is permanently primed.

The analogy I can think of is how instant LED brake lights are, where as you can percieve a filament bulb warming up.

Its a microsecond but it is tangible so the hydraulic PAS is the LED and the EPS the filament.

I know its more efficent but i just don't like it, those that have started at the beginnin will know how i hated the trip to France with the car - as a counter point i recently did 2500km in an old alfa which is a little tired, couldn't have been more different! Loved it.

Maybe the F10/11 just isn't for me, ostensibly a fine car but for me the steering and gearbox really take the edge off!

 

 

 

[duncan-uk]

So a bit of an update, ever since i fitted the rack i would occasionally get a "steering behaviour affected" drive moderately to BMW and give them all your money warning. This was because the car didnt recognise the replacement steering rack. BMW wouldnt code it as they didnt fit it or so they said though i wonder if i'd booked it in with the fault whether they would have solved it...

Instead i took a trip to End Tuning to have the rack coded in - well worth the trip and process took maybe half an hour with some chatting.

We scanned the car too, reset the electic seat parameters that were throwing a code and all seems good.

Enda also confirmed my car is up to date software wise which is helpful to know with regards to my gearbox feelings meaning it doesn't need the SI B12 09 11 software update.

If you need coding etc give him a try, shame i cant get my e39 to him!

https://www.endtuning.com/

So am i happy? Well i will do rear arms as i have them then have alignment again, the front feels as tight as it should be being as its all new. As such i think the car is now as they're meant to be ie fault free but maybe they're not for me. 🤷‍♂️

[Andrew]

So 

It’s not too steery anymore then?