thdoyle Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Hello. Sad times. Our beautiful E39 Touring in Orient Blue as lost reverse gear, with an accompanied "grinding/sanding" noise when attempting to reverse. It will roll down a slope backwards with very low power to wheels when reverse is selected. However, there's not enough power transmitted to the wheels to be able to reverse up the slightest of slopes... It's done 170k miles, probably on original oil. So, statistically, it's about time this sort of thing happened. The problem is I'm not sure if it's worth fixing. I've been quoted around £1500 to install a secondhand gearbox, but I won't know the condition of the replacement box. Any suggestions or test I can do that might save me having to commit to £1500 repair? I am fairly mechanically minded and have been able to repair most things on the car over the years including rear air suspension, rocker cover gasket etc. Failing this, i feel it might be time to sell as spare/repair. Worth it? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Halls Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 What is your location Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan-uk Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 It does sound rather terminal. I guess the decision is based on the rest of the car. If otherwise good I’d be tempted to fix but if other issues or rust etc then it’s probably time to move on. trouble is always buying something else carries a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thdoyle Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 47 minutes ago, Colin Halls said: What is your location Wiltshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E39mad Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 There's a very good autobox repair/service company in Leek Staffs if you are relatively close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan-uk Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Or Dartford Transmissions, who does a lot of BMWs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 I think you are unfortunate. The transmission fluid in my '98 523i was changed (not flushed) together with the filter at 150k probably for the first time simply because I thought it a good idea given my healthy disregard for the phrase 'lifetime' The 'box wasn't displaying any issues & the sample of the old fluid retained by the garage (in a clean jar I had provided) was dirty but still red in colour. Should you decide to sell, the market value (with faulty transmission) is likely to be scrap value. You are obviously fond of the car, so the question is what's it worth to you? If it were mine I'd be looking to repair/replace the 'box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thdoyle Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 given that we need to change the car to something bigger now, anyway, it's likely we would only sell the car once fixed. Probably not wroth the fix, then. If breaking, what have people managed to fetch money wise? It would seem a shame to scrap it if it can donate decent parts to other E39 on the road. Apart from the gearbox, EVERYTHING works on it, which is astonishing really. No pixel outs, radio and CD multi changer all fully functioning. One USP for this car is that it has the genuine E39 mudflaps which seem to be in high demand! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan-uk Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Just a word of caution on “bigger” cars I changed my e39 for an f11 and the boot is if anything worse due to the shape. Definitely worth looking carefully at what a replacement actually gives you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thdoyle Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 agreed that there isn't much out there that actually offers more cargo space... we're looking at Land cruiser/RR L322/Volvo XC90. all seem to offer an extra 100-500 litres extra cargo space depending on seat configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevecvo Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Loss of reverse gear is a well known failing on these auto boxes. I would suggest contacting the specialists quoted above to get an idea of the cost of a reconditioned box and then decide what to do. A second hand box is a bit of a gamble especially at the price you mention but a rcon box fitted is likely to cost a bit more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Halls Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 E39 specialist in Dartford is one I know he told me a couple years back about 1600 fitted You could just get second hand box and get many more years of life out of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Anthony Regents Park Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 The ZF 5H5P19 has pressed steel brake drums and these split open. The previous 5HP18 (E34 and pre 99 E38) used cast drums which don't. A secondhand gearbox has the same secondhand brake drums as a £1500 recon unit. Folk bang on and on about fluid changes and it does bugger all apart from the placebo effect. My last E39, a 1998 528iA did 210,000 on the original oil and it still works perfectly. Synthetic ATF is serious oil. My own record is 243,000 in a 1992 E36 320iA. Gearboxes fail because something has broken. It's looks a tidy car. Your options are a £1500 recon unit, a £500 used unit (and £350 ish to fit) or contact ZF UK for a price for a proper fully rebuilt unit. It's an old E39 so it may be a constant stream of problems but they're cheaper than an ageing F11 and all the shit that comes with it and much nicer than, God forbid, an E61. However: if the backs of the sills are starting to look a bit Titanic, them I'd be outing it. Know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. If it's not rusty (a big ask these days) would find a good used box, change the converter oil seal and oil filter and stick that in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 26/08/2024 at 15:04, Sir Anthony Regents Park said: A secondhand gearbox has the same secondhand brake drums as a £1500 recon unit. Folk bang on and on about fluid changes and it does bugger all apart from the placebo effect. My last E39, a 1998 528iA did 210,000 on the original oil and it still works perfectly. Synthetic ATF is serious oil. My own record is 243,000 in a 1992 E36 320iA. Gearboxes fail because something has broken. Just out of interest, do your views extend to the age of the fluid as opposed to the car's mileage? My question is by no means confrontational, just seeking your opinion because in addition to the BM I also own a 37 year old Range Rover with a ZF HP22 'box that despite never having had a fluid change appears to function as intended, with a red hue to the fluid (at the correct level) no flaring on ratio changes, no slippage & instant kick-down operation achieved without the need to floor the loud pedal. Thank you for your time Sir A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Anthony Regents Park Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I've no answer tbh! It's in there for lubrication and hydraulic pressure. If it does both, it's OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Sir Anthony Regents Park said: I've no answer tbh! It's in there for lubrication and hydraulic pressure. If it does both, it's OK. I guess that answers my query, thank you for your opinion. The 'box is quiet, so I assume the lube element is OK. It works fine, so the same probably applies to the hydraulic pressure. I'll not be losing any sleep then, at the end of the day it's only a second car that does less than 1,000m a year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve VH Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 I would just mention, if a fluid change does bugger all, how come ZF are recommending a fluid change at around 60,000 miles, I fully accept that a fluid change won't save a failing transmission, but it will prolong the life of a working normally transmission, in the same way an engine oil change will usually prolong its life, OK, so no combustion by products will mix with transmission fluid, the only thing to degrade a transmission oil is heat, metal, and clutch friction particles. The older mineral fluid will varnish over time, and becomes sticky, as mentioned synthetic transmission fluid is serious stuff, and will last almost indefinitely, but will still come out blackened when the fluid is changed, proving that it will degrade over time, and miles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Anthony Regents Park Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 After 3 miles, the oil in a diesel engine is as black as sin but it's still good. It's down to the individual but I wouldn't bother. An example is a 1997 R reg 528i E39 with over 200,000 miles. It had a problem where it wouldn't change up into 4th unless you used Steptronic. We tried everything including fitting a known good valve chest. The original 1997 oil was drained into a clean container and whilst pretty dark, was still clean enough when you had a bit on your fingers. It went back in, and no, the 'box was still misbehaving. In the end I did change the oil - no difference. In the end, a faulty ABS ECU was causing the problem. Once replaced it was perfect. I've done transmission oil changes on cars and whilst the owners swear blind it was different, they always felt the same to me.The gearbox, not the owner. To each their own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan-uk Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 I did my e46 (Dartford transmissions) when I first got it. The car had 88k at the time so felt it was a sensible precaution and certainly would do no harm as I was a bit paranoid about these auto boxes. Not sure i’d bother on a high miler (sleeping dogs n all that). There seems to be a reported correlation on fluid changes and failures but I think that’s because it’s seen as a cure for other ills. I suspect boxes are not as fragile as internet law would suggest. It’s just we see posts like this one but not the “my box is fine” like Andy says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve VH Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 (edited) 1970's and 80's automatic transmissions would often need to be replaced/reconditioned by 100k, and one reason they were few, and far between, today they are much more prevalent, probably with having so much stop/start traffic and in many cases getting over 200k miles before expiring, so twice the lifespan. So progress is good, now sort the longevity of the engines out, N40' and N57's Edited September 8 by Steve VH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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