What to do with LCI halogen head lights - not bright enough

[LF-E61 52OD]

Help please.

I have bought another E61 to share with my son as work car back up etc. Our other E61 car has adaptive xenons - this one does not just halogen.

Drove it back Friday night and cannot live with brightness levels. ( she is lowish miles 117k, drives well, sun roof and good history 520D )

What options on lights

a) I have a set of xenons from LCI model in stock.  I remember professor Gonzo advising it is a lot of problems retrofitting because of sensors and coding etc. but cannot find specifics.

b) Or what bulb upgrades could I do.  I am not so worried about the lights turning as giving enough brightness  ~ 4300 k not too blue.

I have been googling and I am not coming up with any clear answers
 

 

 

[Changy]

I have the D2S HID; like you, I have adaptive Xenons. I fitted a set of Osram Night Breaker Bulbs into my wife's Suzuki, which is a huge improvement. Ive heard good things about the Philips Xtremevision, but have no experience of them.

[dj123]

Osram night breakers are the way to go. Best bulb i've used with a decent light distance and clear pattern. 

Check that your headlights are getting full power to the bulb, to ensure they're getting optimum power. The wires/connectors in the headlight can start to rust out/corrode and reduce power to the bulb. 

[Changy]

25 minutes ago, dj123 said:

Osram night breakers are the way to go. Best bulb i've used with a decent light distance and clear pattern.

I agree with you and have the HID version in my car. 

[Ray112]

Halogen LCI headlights with 5000k hid kit. 

It's hard to judge distance in photos, but they are shining that far, that I can see dipped beam cutoff lane on road. I was playing with idea of retrofitting adaptive xenon headlights, but probably I won't get much better light, especially since you don't know condition of second hand headlights until you connect them, some have completely faded chrome behind projectors, in that case no matter what bulbs you use, light is poor. Had this experience with E39, ended with upgrading to bixenon projectors and light was impressive after upgrade. 

In your case probably easiest option is to fit a decent quality hid kit in your halogen lights.

[LF-E61 52OD]

Thanks for input.

I will look at HID xenon kits. The nightbreakers look good also.

[webweaver]

I have these. LED. Not strictly legal, but MOT tester ok with these. Not cheapo e bay. These: https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php

speak to this chap Gil Keane

[Ray112]

4 hours ago, webweaver said:

I have these. LED. Not strictly legal, but MOT tester ok with these. Not cheapo e bay. These: https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php

speak to this chap Gil Keane

Do you have any pictures with beam pattern against the wall and any pictures with light output on the road? I presume these are pre LCI halogen lights with reflector you are having.

Edited February 6 by Ray112

[webweaver]

No pics at present, but MOT tester says pattern is fine and no issues with colour. These were originally pre LCI halogen 

[Ray112]

2 hours ago, webweaver said:

No pics at present, but MOT tester says pattern is fine and no issues with colour. These were originally pre LCI halogen 

It very much matters who is testing a car, what's good for one, is a fail for another. LEDs or HIDs in reflector halogen lights are quite dazzling oncoming traffic, that's why it's a lot better if those types of bulbs are used in projector type headlights. It's making a lot less glare around headlight. 

[Changy]

8 minutes ago, Ray112 said:

It very much matters who is testing a car, what's good for one, is a fail for another. LEDs or HIDs in reflector halogen lights are quite dazzling oncoming traffic, that's why it's a lot better if those types of bulbs are used in projector type headlights. It's making a lot less glare around headlight. 

When I switched to Night Breakers, I had to adjust them downward because they were dazzling other drivers. Thankfully, I knew they were wrong after a few hundred yards. I've not had a problem since. 

[Ray112]

1 hour ago, Changy said:

When I switched to Night Breakers, I had to adjust them downward because they were dazzling other drivers. Thankfully, I knew they were wrong after a few hundred yards. I've not had a problem since. 

That's little weird, because most bulbs have very close to identical hotspot and that's why cut off lane stays the same. Unless you remove whole headlight for easier access when replacing bulbs, then there's always a chance to misalign something when refitting them. 

With led and hid bulbs problem is that LEDs sometimes have very poor dipped beam cutoff, plus area on headlight which is emitting light is a lot bigger than from projector headlights, that's why they look a lot brighter to oncoming traffic. I have had factory xenon headlights for nearly 10 years on various cars and current E61 has quality hid kit installed, which doesn't look any different to eom xenon lights. Before I tried several led bulbs and none of them were capable to give as much light as xenon bulbs, plus some of them had dark spots on road due to led elements were pointing sideways.

[Changy]

10 hours ago, Ray112 said:

That's little weird, because most bulbs have very close to identical hotspot and that's why cut off lane stays the same

Yes, I agree with you and that's why it caught me out. I looked at the light spread and felt it was a little high. A bus driver flashed their headlights at me and I was only 200 yards from home. I then returned home, adjusted them slightly downwards and they were fine after that.

[Humour]

On 05/02/2024 at 21:10, Ray112 said:

Halogen LCI headlights with 5000k hid kit. 

It's hard to judge distance in photos, but they are shining that far, that I can see dipped beam cutoff lane on road. I was playing with idea of retrofitting adaptive xenon headlights, but probably I won't get much better light, especially since you don't know condition of second hand headlights until you connect them, some have completely faded chrome behind projectors, in that case no matter what bulbs you use, light is poor. Had this experience with E39, ended with upgrading to bixenon projectors and light was impressive after upgrade. 

In your case probably easiest option is to fit a decent quality hid kit in your halogen lights.

I must do this on mine. The candles and my failing sight are increases the risk or roadkill lol. 

Which product HID did you buy if you don't mind sharing? 5K light colour is my preference too. I'm on H7 halogens too. 

[Changy]

32 minutes ago, Humour said:

Which product HID did you buy if you don't mind sharing? 5K light colour is my preference too. I'm on H7 halogens too. 

I have the Osram Night Breaker in D2S, and I have the Osram Cool Blue Intense H7 bulbs which are 5000K.

[Ray112]

33 minutes ago, Humour said:

I must do this on mine. The candles and my failing sight are increases the risk or roadkill lol. 

Which product HID did you buy if you don't mind sharing? 5K light colour is my preference too. I'm on H7 halogens too. 

I bought it from hids-direct.co.uk, was around £60, but I can't see my kit in their website, but most likely any kit will be good if it's good quality and canbus error free, which mine was. It was 55w ballasts and 5000k bulbs, colour wise looks like OEM xenon. Beam pattern is perfectly sharp. And since I have all ballasts and wiring nicely hidden plus I have finished my headlight washer retrofit, I'm thinking to leave them in this year on MOT test, can't see it failing for it.

[Gonzo]

Retrofit LCI halogens and stick some LED bulbs in, as they're projectors they work really well, basically the output of xenons, if not more.

[LF-E61 52OD]

On 13/02/2024 at 16:18, Gonzo said:

Retrofit LCI halogens and stick some LED bulbs in, as they're projectors they work really well, basically the output of xenons, if not more.

Thank you prof  Gonzo or is it "Mars bar fingers" these days (tee hee) and everyone else for input.

I have Osram Nightbreakers but not had a minute to fit them yet. 
I will post some before and afters.  
If not the full Xenon experience it looks like Xenon or LED possible.
I can use the Osrams  on something else as well.

I put some H8s LED "canbus error free" whites on Angel eyes on my other E61 and really happy with colour but they did throw an error and needed monitoring turning off.

[Ian]

I have an lci E61 with h7 halogen lights (I can't recall what bulb, but I think they might be night breakers).

A while back I tried retrofitting a 55w HID kit, which I got off eBay for about £60 I think.   

What went well: it fitted (by drilling through rear bulb cover and snipping open the metal bulb holder collar)

They are definitely brighter than halogen, and a whiter light ( I didn't go too cold)

 

What didn't go well: they didn't always come on.  Often I would have to turn them off and on a few times before they "caught".   A bit like a duff fluorescent tube.

 So with the auto light function this was really annoying, as it would just throw the warning triangle when the lights didn't come on.  

 

plus athestically, the white bulbs looked daft with the yellow angel eye rings (but that's a separate issue).

So I took them off and put the h7 back in, now minus the bulb covers (which are quite pricey to buy individually).  I've covered the back of the lights with tape.

I would recommend hid as a solution with a projector light, but would want testimony from someone that the kit worked.

 

I didn't try and get through an MOT with them, and would probably have swapped back - which was pretty quick, as the hard work was getting the bulb holder changed over.

 

Hth

 

Ian

[Gonzo]

LED are as good if not better in some cases.

[Humour]

1 hour ago, Gonzo said:

LED are as good if not better in some cases.

Still a maturing techology and testing across the board demonstrates that they hardly get close to their specs in most regards, from power consumption to light output over time, and most annoyingly to get a 5K colour output one has to fork out over £100 from Philips/Osram. 

I've tried a couple with mixed results. The ones I had in the e60 had a really shitty pattern and a 6.5K were too cold and imo did not light the road that well. Then, one of them not even lasting 12 months before becoming dim was the final straw. At 30+ for something not lasting a year is hardly. Good clue. 

Ofcourse, results do vary. Mine have been poor and I'm now more reluctant to just throw money at it without detailed research with a proven track record of a given product. 

[Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Humour said:

Still a maturing techology and testing across the board demonstrates that they hardly get close to their specs in most regards, from power consumption to light output over time, and most annoyingly to get a 5K colour output one has to fork out over £100 from Philips/Osram. 

I've tried a couple with mixed results. The ones I had in the e60 had a really shitty pattern and a 6.5K were too cold and imo did not light the road that well. Then, one of them not even lasting 12 months before becoming dim was the final straw. At 30+ for something not lasting a year is hardly. Good clue. 

Ofcourse, results do vary. Mine have been poor and I'm now more reluctant to just throw money at it without detailed research with a proven track record of a given product. 

I've stuck with Osram LED wise, for good reason, I won't entertain the cheap Chinesium specials.

[Ray112]

9 hours ago, Gonzo said:

LED are as good if not better in some cases.

Will disagree on this. I tried several kits of LEDs before fitting hid kit and none of led bulbs were giving light on road as far in advance as does hid bulbs. LEDs are very bright first few meters around bumper, but thats about it. With hid kit I can see dipped beam cut off lane on road, nothing like that with LEDs. And when people keep saying LEDs are brighter than HIDs, I'm always asking which exact led bulb should I get then to get better light output on road, still waiting for that answer. LEDs have still long way to go to be bright everywhere without dark spots on road.

[LF-E61 52OD]

Only just got a chance to work on her, she lives away much of the time.  Still work in progress but here is where I am up to.

It turns out that the dipped beam was a no name LED not halogen with a fan - but the bulb clips have been butchered. See photo, 

I am not happy with them but work around is improved front fogs.  More reading and thinking ...

I put the nightbreakers 200 into the high beam H7 bulbs and WOW they are great.  Really light up well like my xenons.  A bit yellow though.

I bought some H8 12.5 W 6500K 2500 lumen bulbs (£20) that I used on angel eyes on my other car with xenon units - to make them white, but these lamps are different ! Multiple small bulbs by the looks of it.  Another day - cosmetics.

I put the LED H8s in the the fog lights and WOW they are good and really improve the pot hole spotting ability.
Supposed to be Canbus error free but I had to Carly them out to stop errors.( I had to on Xenon one too) 
I am going to try a set on my other car but they are pulled by amazon by the looks of it, presumably because of Canbus fibs

I need to do a photo of front of car in dark, I have only road tested in dark at the moment on the lanes.

 

Chinesium ? LEDs in dipped main beam.

 

[Ray112]

I tried fair few LEDs in dipped and high beam, none of them were impressive in longer distance. 

Took my car to MOT test with my hid kit installed (all ballasts and wiring is hidden completely underneath headlights) and it passed without any issues. And no, I didn't know anyone in that garage either, so it wasn't friendly mot tester.