F11 Rear Jacking…

[Andy5150]

For those that read my thread earlier this week about the clunking coming from the rear of my F11, I’m fairly sure it’s the rear ARB drop links that have failed. I plan to jack up the car and remove the wheels to check this weekend but here’s my question;

1. Checking only: happy to use the trolley jack to lift each side in turn using the cill jacking points near the rear wheels as it’ll only be suspended for about 10 mins…

2. Replacing the drop links: to leave the car jacked for any period of time I wouldn’t want to rely solely on my trolley jack, and instead use axle stands too. I’d prefer not to lift the whole of the rear using the F11 jacking plate and putting axle stands under both sides at the same time. I’d rather just lift one side at a time - not sure I’d trust my Jack with the whole weight on it. So my question is how do I lift each side and get it onto axle stands on the cill jacking points if the trolley jack is already using those jacking points?

i did watch a YouTube video of someone replacing the arb drop links on an F11 and he kept the trolley jack on the cill jacking point and put an axle stand under the rear wishbone or hub assembly.. 

Hopefully this all makes sense? Grateful for any steer!

Thx

Andy

[Steve84N]

I'd leave the jack on the pad and put the axle stand on the inner part of the H arm. It's not much use on the outer as the suspension can compress and drop the car on you.

Have it so the axle stand is touching but the weight mostly on the jack. Could position another jack under the central plate. Also, put the wheel under the sills so if the worst happens it catches the car. 

I have a Quickjack lift for jobs where I go under but that's what I'd do. I'm sure Andrew will have some tips too. 

[Andrew]

You'll not like this @Andy5150, but the best way to do the drop links is to lift the whole of the car rear end up by means of the central rear jacking point (shown in posts below) and sit it on axle stands under the cill jacking points because .....

..... you need both wheels in the air so that you don't have to fight the torsion that will be present in the roll bar if you only jack up one side.

If both wheels are in the air and thus sitting at the same level, there is no torsion in the roll bar.  If you only do one at a time with one wheel still on the ground, when you undo the drop link it will move into the position of that on the other side and you might struggle to get it back into position.

I replaced the links on my E39 when I was much younger and thus didn't have the tool kit I have now. What I did was drive to my dads house with my trolley jack in the boot, parked on his level driveway and used his trolley jack under one rear cill point and mine under the other so that both rear wheels were off the ground and thus relived the roll bar of any tension.

But what I did do was this

On 26/10/2023 at 22:51, Steve84N said:

Also, put the wheel under the sills so if the worst happens it catches the car. 

and still do to this day if having the car up on just a jack if not really venturing under it. My mates dad told us to do that when working on his Nova, I wasn't even old enough to drive at the time. Absolutely sound advice.

I had mine up on all four axle stands to do the brake fluid swap and stuck the wheels under the cill between the axle stands

BMW don't really offer any help as they only see the car ever being lifted on a ramp by means of the four cill jacking points.  
 

Personally I wouldn't put an axle stand under the lower 'H' arm because you are then putting load into that arm and its bushes that IMHO was never designed to take.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Andrew
Clarifying F11 rear jacking points

[Steve84N]

It's been a while since I've had to use axle stands so I forgot about the ARB tension. I don't think it matters if the wheels are both in the air or both on the ground, so long as they are the same. Therefore, you could also drive up a ramp with the wheels still on. 

Once I started doing more myself I made the investment in a lift system, it's so much safer/easier and pays for itself in the long run. 

[Andrew]

9 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

 I don't think it matters if the wheels are both in the air or both on the ground, so long as they are the same. Therefore, you could also drive up a ramp with the wheels still on. 

 

Exactly it won't matter as long as they are the same.

11 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

I made the investment in a lift system, it's so much safer/easier and pays for itself in the long run. 

Amen to that.

If you are really keen/daft enough, half a dozen jobs will easily pay for them.  I use them for oil changes where you need to raise the car high enough up to get under it to drain the oil but lower again to gain access to the top side then lift again to put sump plug back in etc.

[Andy5150]

Hi @Steve84N and @Andrew, such great advice again, thank you. I do get the point about the torsion in the arb and in fact one of the two videos I watched referenced this - the guy had to lever a crowbar slightly against the arb to bring down the fixing point enough to the get the bolt on the top of the drop link into the fitting on the roll bar. It looked a little fiddly but not too bad. The second video I watched the guy didn’t seem to have that problem at all and just tapped it in, despite seemingly only having one side jacked up - with an axle stand exactly where @Steve84N had suggested.

i bought some ramps (not smart hydraulic ones mind! 😀) to do oil changes a few weeks ago .. so if I understand correctly, are the drop links doable with the wheels on then, just with greater ground clearance as the car is on the ramps? Assumedly the tension on the arb is equal with both wheels being on the ground (ramp), so otherwise, as long as there’s enough room to work it should be possible to replace the links with the wheels in situ? I can’t picture the underside at the rear so maybe there’s too much stuff in the way to go in from the underside - exhaust, lower arms, under trays?

[Steve84N]

I reckon you could do them with the wheels on, on the ramps. 

[Andy5150]

5 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

I reckon you could do them with the wheels on, on the ramps. 

Thx @Steve84N - I’ll reverse on to the ramps this weekend to check. My drive slopes ever so slightly down towards the house (extra peace of mind for the yellow grommet drain area 😀) so if the car is facing down slope then it should give me a little extra clearance too. Torquing the nuts might be a little trickier from underneath if there isn’t so much leverage but I’ll assess that when I’m under there! Cheers again

[Andrew]

Yes, I took my links off with the car up on ramps.

But I removed the whole roll bar with the links still attached.

It took some wiggling to get it out from under the car with the twin exhaust set up and the suspension at ride height.

 

After snapping more torx bits counter holding the shank of the link,

I lost patience and just gripped the ball joint with a pair of mole grips and impacted the nut off.  Which is fine as the links were being repalced.

I took my roll bar off to treat the rust and replace its bushes. 

It's the one DIY guide I've still to re-write from the old forum....

[Munzy]

I was super reluctant to lift the rear on the brace, thought it looked too thin to take the stress, but I’ve now done it a number of times and had no problems with any worry about creaking or bending. Only way I can see to get jack stands under both sides. Everything I read was not to lift using any part of the diff case as there is something different to the F10 mounting here. 
 

100% worth buying a nice big jack like the one I use - literally one of my best home mechanic purchases. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Munzy

[Andy5150]

6 hours ago, Andrew said:

Yes, I took my links off with the car up on ramps.

Confirmed then! So it’s possible after all. Weather permitting (supposed to rain here on Sunday!) I’ll get onto the ramps and get under and take some photos. I assume I’ll still be able to agitate the drop links enough to detect any play with them despite them Assumedly being under more tension with the suspension resting on the wheels as opposed to being suspended, wheel off..? Thx for confirming @Andrew 👍

[Andy5150]

1 hour ago, Munzy said:

was super reluctant to lift the rear on the brace, thought it looked too thin

Thx for the advice @Munzy. Yes, I’d read that the F11 has a unique rear centralised jacking point which the F10 doesn’t have although I’d not heard anything about not using the rear diff (away from the end plate of course) as a jacking point. Sounds like the jacking point is more robust than expected although I wonder if it is actually a formal jacking point at all? If I recall it’s a plate that sits at the apex of two bracing struts which head away at approx 45deg angles toward the front of the car?

For this inspection/job I’m hoping that I’ll have enough clearance just reversing up onto ramps but if not, thanks to everyone’s advice I have a multitude of options now!

 

cheers

Andy

[Cadwell Parker]

9 hours ago, Andy5150 said:

I wonder if it is actually a formal jacking point at all?

I don't think it's intended as a jacking point but it has the strength needed to support the car long enough to get stands under the jacking points at either side. This was mine when I changed an air spring a while ago...

Just remember to chock the front wheels if using this method as the car will have a tendency to roll forwards.

[Andrew]

There will be no discernible difference in the stresses in the roll bar if both wheels are on the ramp or dangling.

As long as both rear wheels are at the same position there will be no stress in the roll bar, it’s only stressed up when there is a difference in relative position of the rear wheels.

[Andy5150]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

there will be no stress in the roll bar, it’s only stressed up when there is a difference in relative position of the rear wheels.

Thanks Andrew - great to know, that makes things easier 

[Andy5150]

3 hours ago, Cadwell Parker said:

Just remember to chock the front wheels if using this method as the car will have a tendency to roll forwards.

Good point!! Parking brake is only in the rear 👍

[Munzy]

 

From newTIS:

Edited October 28, 2023 by Munzy

[Andy5150]

Thanks @Munzy, that’s the diagram that I was thinking of when I said above about the arms fanning out at around 45 deg from the plate.. good to see that it can indeed be used officially. Cheers

[Andrew]

Thanks @Munzy

I have edited my F10 rear jacking post to clarify that this for saloon only when jacking on the differential. 

[Andy5150]

6 hours ago, Andrew said:

saloon only when jacking on the differential.

Bizarre that there should be any difference between f10 and f11 isn’t it?

[Steve84N]

I don't think the F10 has the diagonal braces, they're a bit like what you find on cabriolets. Extra stiffening for a less stiff shell at the rear. 

[Andrew]

44 minutes ago, Andy5150 said:

Bizarre that there should be any difference between f10 and f11 isn’t it?

I don’t think there is any difference in the differentials nor their mounting bushes. The subframe will probably be different. 
 

13 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

I don't think the F10 has the diagonal braces, 

No rear braces on the F10. 

14 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

Extra stiffening for a less stiff shell at the rear. 

so in other words the saloon is just “better”😆

[Steve84N]

I'm a lot quicker than you are when you're dragging around that trailer! 😜