Cadwell Parker Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Having lulled myself into a false sense of security after modifying the "acoustic cover" covering the infamous yellow grommet to allow water to drain away more freely I hadn't checked it for some time. Last Monday I was looking forward to having a nice time giving the interior a good vacuum and general clean up but when I lifted the left hand rear floor mat and found condensation covering the bottom I knew my plans were going to have to change. Sure enough the carpet underneath was soaked through. Removing one of the velcro floor mat fastenings and pressing my thumb into the hole beneath generated a squirt of water. Suspicion immediately turned towards the yellow grommet. On removing the acoustic cover I found... Yuk! I'm kicking myself because I should have checked it well before now but hopefully I've caught it in time to avoid any lasting issues. After removing the accumulated crud and leaf matter... the drain area is looking a lot better... although the yellow grommet has obviously seen better days. I didn't have time on Monday to get into lifting the carpet but using my oil vacuum pump I sucked out as much water as I could squeeze from the foam with my hand. I've left a dehumidifier running in the car while it's been parked outside the house between shifts at work hoping that would suffice. That was getting some out for a couple of days and things are looking better but now it's struggling to get much more and I can still see dampness at the bottom of the mat fastening hole so I'm going to have to lift the carpet this weekend. I'll start with the left side and see how far up the water has soaked. Hopefully won't have strip the whole lot out. I know that will entail removing the passenger seat. Does anyone know if it'll be OK to drive the car without the seat fitted? I'd like to leave the carpet raised as long as necessary but will need to keep using the car after the weekend. Just wondering whether the car will throw a fit if the seat electrics aren't connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percha Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Unlucky, its reminding me to check mine as I think we cleaned our grommets out at the same timeframe originally. For driving without seat, will be fine but I guess due to unplugging seat it will throw errors on (Airbag, pressure sensor) I guess.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve84N Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I've driven without a front passenger seat, just have to clear the codes afterwards and disconnect the battery before plugging it back in again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 There might be a trouble code recorded as it knows when someone sits on the seat but hadn’t buckled up, you can easily sort that tho. Have to ask, how long ago was it when you did your grommet cover mods? I’m in every year cleaning out in front of the yellow grommet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadwell Parker Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Andrew said: Have to ask, how long ago was it when you did your grommet cover mods? I can't remember for sure when it was done last, at least 2 years probably, maybe longer. It's not a difficult job once you know what to do so in future I'm just going to add it to the oil change routine. That way it'll get done twice a year and I won't be able to forget about it or put it off til next month, and the next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Cortina Fan Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Must be that time of year. I cleaned out detritus, replaced the grommet, and modified the cover last year. Driving all smug for a year. And then, wet carpets again... Not as much crap lurking as yours CP, but evidence of a high tide - which is clearly enough to flood the cabin 🤬 I might cover the yellow bugger in silicone before I put the cover back tomorrow. Carpets lifted to dry as we speak just proves this has to be annual event - including cleaning the grommet behind the NSF wheel by the brake pipes - as that’s root cause And note to self - do this job in the summer when it’s warm n dry 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadwell Parker Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 I bought a new set of trim tools earlier today. I've pulled off most of the necessary trim and got to the point where I need to remove the front passenger seat. Does anyone know what size Torx bit fits the bolts holding the seat in place. The largest I have is T45 but that feels a bit loose. Will a T50 fit better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It’s the last line of defence but it sounds like your yellow grommet needs replacing @Cadwell Parker. If it’s in good condition it’ll be able to resist an amount of water pressure but if it’s degrading, it won’t stand a chance if the drains are blocked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve84N Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 @Cadwell Parkerfrom memory it is indeed a T50. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Cortina Fan Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Well I removed the wheelarch liner (2 rotten rounded screw heads and 1 seized spire clip later…) and took out the drain grommet from the brake pipes. A bit of crud in there but no deluge of water or apparent blockage - and it was surprisingly dry in there. You can just see the yellow grommet from the brake pipe aperture in the 1st photo (arrow) I poked a mini drain snake through from the yellow grommet to the brake pipes, all clear, no blockage. It seems pretty level so I can imagine if water isn’t draining out the brake grommet, it will slosh back to the yellow peril then and then eventually into the cabin… I did wonder about throwing the ‘acoustic cover’ in the bin to solve the drainage issue once and for all, but it is part of the firewall, and given the N47 EGR fires I thought it prudent to refit it. So I’ve drilled a hole at the low point of the cover, just above the (modified) seal. I’ve hacked the sound deadening foam on the front as I don’t want that absorbing water and sitting damp forever. The yellow grommet looked fine as it was replaced last year, so I liberally applied silicone sealant over the mating surfaces. Fingers crossed this will keep her carpets dry over the winter… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadwell Parker Posted October 14, 2023 Author Share Posted October 14, 2023 I found some time today to remove the front passenger seat and get the carpet lifted up. It wasn't too difficult, better than I'd been anticipating. It's quite strange seeing my nice car in such disarray but it should all go back together quite easily and I know it a little better now so some good has come out of the situation. The foam is soaked. Squeeze it between your fingers and they come away with drips on them. It's mostly towards the back where the carpet angles upwards towards the back seat. Just a few damp patches on the floorpan and a bit of condensation. Interestingly the front carpet feels completely dry so I'm wondering if the water has come through the yellow grommet or whether the door seal/vapour barrier could be the source. I have noticed some moisture at the bottom of the left rear door frame as well as the occasional drip from the bottom of the door upon opening but there's been no sign of any water leaking into the car from that area. Iirc from the sticky thread on the old forum water can work it's way back from the yellow grommet and collect at the back of the car without leaving much trace further forward. I'll keep an eye on things for now. I'll get hold of some butyl tape then pull off the door card and see what's going on with the vapour seal. I remember something about the fasteners holding the door cards in place having seals which can fail allowing water into the car so that's something else to check. The water doesn't seem to have soaked upwards which is a relief. For now I have the left hand rear carpet lifted and supported with bungee straps attached to the right hand rear passenger grab handle. I've left a fan heater blowing warm air on the wet foam with the dehumidifier running alongside. Will see how things look in the morning. At least now I can just leave the carpet up like that for as long as it takes to dry out properly. On 13/10/2023 at 19:03, Andrew said: It’s the last line of defence but it sounds like your yellow grommet needs replacing It would make sense given the appearance of the current one and the age of the car. I'll get one from Lloyds when I'm back at work next week. While I'm there... Does anyone ( @Steve84N ? ) know whether the 4 seat bolts can be reused? If not I'll get some at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve84N Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 I've reused mine, they weren't in that tight and still had plenty of goo on the threads to stop them working loose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadwell Parker Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 The foam is now feeling dry after having a fan heater blowing on it for 36 hours. I used the car briefly this morning and got the predicted warnings. I'll leave the carpet up for a few days just to make sure it's all dry and then get it all put back together. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadwell Parker Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 Looking forward to getting my car back into some semblance of order I was preparing to commence refitting the carpet and passenger seat. On removal I had only felt along the rearmost edge of the front part of the carpet. It felt dry so I didn't investigate any further but thought I should check all was well before putting the car back together. I'm glad I did as there was water soaked into the foam towards the front. Not as much as was in the back but enough so now the front carpet is up with the fan heater blowing on it overnight. The water seems certain to have come through the yellow grommet. After the rain over the last few days there'd been no sign of anything coming through the door seal. The butyl tape I ordered arrived yesterday so I'll be able to have a go at at the vapour barriers seals at my leisure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Cortina Fan Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 OK so the car is not garaged and has been sitting dormant in the storm eye of Babet all week, but the carpets have not dried and the floor is full of significantly more water than before - despite the drain cleaning and yellow grommet sealing. I shower tested the front and rear doors - all dry on the inside Water ingress is coming down the front pillar - the bulkhead is dry. The foam sound deadening ringed in red is still dripping wet. Has to the windscreen seals IMO. Anyone else been here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Cortina Fan Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 Whilst searching for anything about F10 windscreen leaks this popped up: https://cars.newagain.co.uk/vlog.asp?topic=BMW-5-Series-Water-Leak-Repair&tag=&id=1139 at 1:40 there’s a demo of a rear screen leak 😳 That makes your F10 a water ingress disaster. The yellow grommet leaks, the door seals leak, the front screen can leak and the rear screen can leak too. Pretty much a full house 😁 This guy has spotted the yellow grommet but IMO repair and clean from the engine bay side seems easier and more thorough than keyhole from the cabin. I’m also not convinced about fitting the grommet back to front from the cabin… Anyway I guess the message here is ensure you pin point where a leak is coming from. Wet carpets don’t necessarily mean a failed yellow grommet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadwell Parker Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 I've had everything back together for a few days now. After the recent heavy rain there was no sign of any further dampness in the car. I will be sure to keep a better eye on the yellow grommet in future. Before refitting the front half of the carpet I had a good look at the bulkhead area behind the cabin filters. The foam backed padding on there was nice and dry. I thought I could feel the yellow grommet behind the padding. Seems to be connected to the part poking through the padding circled in red here Looks like it'd be difficult to push out from this side without quite a bit more dismantling so I'll probably invest in some hooks to use to pull it out from the engine side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Yeah that’s as much of the yellow grommet you can see from the inside with ripping out literally everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Cortina Fan Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 ok so she’s still taking in water like the titanic and im running out of ideas and patience I thought I had it nailed last month as she was staying dry in the rain when parked (hurrah), but my long commute in the rain had her pooling water again. Symptom is water is pooling in the front footwell marked in red (I pinched CPs pic👍), plus wet carpets in the rear - although no pooling spent some time trying to replicate the issue today with a hose pipe to no avail. Soaked the front screen and the under bonnet drain trims, and with the front carpet lifted, the yellow grommet and foam dash insulator remained bone dry. removed the rear seat and soaked the rear sceen and boot - no leaks hosed both front and rear doors, nothing. The rear door seals remain dry unlike the attached video still of a ‘problem’ car from question rear door seal - what does a faulty door seal look like? Are they always wet and have condensation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve84N Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Don't think I've ever noticed my door seal look damp like that with spots of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynet5 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) Just done my annual grommet inspection. not much in there which is good. cleared out all the leaves from the sides above the arches with a grabber. I’ve poured a garden can of water to each side to make sure it drains reasonably quickly. ive not done the wheel arches way as yet. I dont have the tools to get the wheels off, but might over summer. I do have spare plastic push studs or whatever they’re called. what’s a good quality breaker bar and torque wrench to buy? Edited December 3, 2023 by Skynet5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Breaker bars I have a 600mm Halfords one which has lasted well for over 23 years. For tighter nuts I bought a 750mm long Sealey one but its handle is a bit whippy on tight nuts and I don’t use it much these days. So I bought a 900mm Machine Mart one, which I have used to undo Kwik Fit tightened wheel bolts. I can make the handle flex so I bought a 1000mm long 3/4” drive breaker bar which has yet to loose a fight with a nut. This is a great tool, 600mm long with a 72 tooth ratchet (5 degrees of swing) and a flex head. Gets most things loose and can then work the ratchet back and forth. If you plan on doing lots of jobs, think about and impact gun. Torque wrench I have a 1/2” Draper 30-210 Nm one which has done me fine but is a bit light for some of the suspension work where 250Nm is needed. I have a 1/2” 70-350 Nm Teng one for that work but it’s a bit clunky to use as the ratchet is quite course so I have a torque transducer unit for awkward stuff. Also have a smaller draper 3/8” drive 10-80Nm for spark plugs and light engine work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4aceman Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I have the 600mm halfords one. When it’s not enough leverage I put my jack handle over the end of it 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynet5 Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Thanks. I was going down the path of Wera tools. As I have a small one to maintain my Rc nitro clutch. The bigger versions seem very expensive though 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 An RC Nitro clutch won’t put up the same fight as an F10 front lower control arm balljoint but! 😆 Wera do nice sets but pricey for the bigger tools. For DIY use Teng, Clarke/Machine Mart, Draper Expert and Sealey Premium will be fine. Don’t buy their basic brand, I.e non Expert or Premium. I have a nice set of Facom/Britool ratchet spanners that I bought one at a time, they are a godsend on balljoint nuts along with a set of impact grade Torx bits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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