F11 535i Engine Failure

[bmwmike]

22 hours ago, Andrew said:

https://oilanalysislab.com/

As per recommended in Car Mechanics Mag.  Ppppffftttt

 

Just messaged these guys 

https://www.theoillab.co.uk/product-category/oil-testing/engine/

and shipping is included in the price and you can chose what tests you want.  And they will also test autobox oil too.

 

I looked at your Miller recommendations and the Blackstone I found was on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, were they UK when you used them?

I'm not recommending miller's, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Blackstone is US, and they send you the sample kit then you send it back and pay iirc. I used them a couple of times and no problem, but was quite a few years ago. I'd use them over miller's. Iirc the time to results was similar as I had to chase miller's for a reply, which I didn't appreciate.

[Andrew]

7 hours ago, bmwmike said:

I'm not recommending miller's, quite the opposite in fact.

 

 

Yes sorry, I used a bad choice of words. 

It will need to wait anyhoo as I’ve just done an oil change. 

[Steve84N]

There's a surprising amount of play in a new dual mass flywheel... Also quite disappointed with the surface rust from storage on a £540 part. It should arrive at CPC tomorrow and I really hope it cures the vibration! 

 

[Percha]

I would be interested how the new one compares, because by the engineering behind a dual mass flywheel they are supposed to have a certain amount of play. It does sound a bit clicky though!

[Steve84N]

That is the brand new one. 

There's some play back and fore, then you can feel it pushing against the internal springs. 

I guess the play on the edges is to provide some float but I'd have thought the driveline is all engineered with small enough tolerances not to need it. A single mass flywheel doesn't move at all. When spinning it won't be rocking between the two limits rotationally as it only spins one way. 

If a single mass flywheel wasn't so noisy I'd convert it. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Steve84N

[Andrew]

Interesting video, thanks for sharing.

 

[Shakeel.j]

When I replaced the chain I changed the flywheel, it had the same amount of movement as your video so I sent it back as I thought it was faulty. The replacement was the same but once it was on the car I never felt any vibration or heard any noise.

I found out as long as it has less then 6 teeth movement either side and springy on the last tooth it's fine.

 

[Steve84N]

The flywheel made no difference, hopefully I can return it... 

I'm going to collect the car on Monday. They can show me the vibration and for now suggested I just get on and use it. Should the issue get worse look into it, maybe gearbox shaft play. 

No news on why it failed, don't think they've stripped it at all. Found this video, with an interesting twist right at the end about aluminium bolts backing out of the VANOS unit causing a drop in oil pressure. The engine in the video spun rod bearing number six. 

I expect mine failed from oil starvation. Whether that's a long corner because there's no baffle in the sump, the OFHG gasket job or the issue in the video, I'll never know. 

 

[Steve84N]

@AndrewI've just discovered the N55 has an oil pressure control valve to save fuel at low rpms by reducing the oil pressure when it's not needed. Might be something to consider renewing, along with the pressure sensor... 

8mins 40s onwards. 

I would happily sacrifice a bit of mpg to still have ancillaries that run all the time, like engine driven water pump, constant (high) oil pressure, hydraulic steering for better feel. Also, port injection to save having to manually clean the valves of carbon deposits. 

All this efficency stuff has made engines less reliable and more expensive. 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Steve84N

[Andrew]

Thanks @Steve84N

I subscribe to “I do cars” on the tube of you and have watched his BMW engine tear downs from behind the sofa.  Most, I suspect are ruined from abuse and lack of oil changes. 
 

I think the screws backing out of the vanos units were on the earlier units, dated before mine. 
 

I’ll investigate that oil pressure control valve. I’m hoping to do my OFHG next weekend if it stops raining. 

[Steve84N]

@Andrewwhat year is yours? Mine is a Sept 11 build. Would be nice to know when my replacement engine was built, not sure if there's a way of finding out? Hopefully, more recently. 

That oil pressure valve looks just like the VANOS solenoid, fine so long as the gauze doesn't get clogged up but there are seals that will degrade over time.

[Andrew]

Hi @Steve84N, mine is a Jan 2013 build.

I’m sure I watched that second video as the crank main seal looked familiar. Yeah it’s just another vanos type solenoid. 
 

I’ve still to clean out my vanos units so I guess it makes sense to check the oil  pressure valve too. 
 

Will the vanos units come out without having to remove the fan I wonder? 

[Steve84N]

@AndrewI'm pretty sure I did my VANOS solenoids without removing the fan, just a couple of bolts to be able to manipulate a wiring loom to one side. They were stiff to remove but someone with your experience should be fine.

I have a new genuine BMW front main seal sat in the garage because mine needed doing and I don't have that tool. 

[Steve84N]

Well, what can I say, got my car back and there's still a problem. 

The engine is super smooth and I got to drive the last couple of miles before it hit 100,000. Pulls cleanly and responsively, just as you'd expect. 

There's a deep grumbling sound that becomes apparent from around 70mph that resonates through the car like a subwoofer almost. This is accompanied by a vibration felt through the car. CPC are flummoxed but by process of elimination suspect the gearbox, as do I. It's sort of intermittent, not as bad sometimes but mostly fairly constant. 

I've discovered that the 535i uses the same gearbox as the original M135i and F30 335i so there is some chance of finding one second hand. Located one from a crashed M135i near Manchester at a BMW breaker supposedly on 69k miles for £1,600. A new one is £3,900 from BMW. Trouble is the 1 Series has probably been thrashed. 

Might try and speak to some gearbox specialists to double check nobody has worked out how to rebuild these transmissions. 

Got a memento for my troubles! 🙃

[Andrew]

@Steve84N

I'm sure these would have been spotted by CPC if obvious but check the following.

Diff mounts, the three rubber bushes crack and allow things to move a bit more than they should.

Prop giubos, front one might be aluminium (it is on mine with the auto), rear one is rubber/fibre and can break up. 

Prop centre mount bearing, if its got play, the shaft can whip which would induce a vibration. Prop splines too. Presumably if CPC took the prop out they wouldn't have split it and if they did marked it for balance on re-assembly.

Prop may have lost a balance weight, you might see evidence of a spot weld but no weight.

Gearbox and engine mounts, the latter I'm sure CPC would have noticed.

Rear drive shafts, CV joints for play. I've heard on an E34 the splines on the driveshafts wearing and giving a vibration.

[Steve84N]

@AndrewI replaced the differential mounting bushes, propshaft centre bearing, propshaft itself with a younger one (no sign of missing weights), rear guibo (front is aluminium), engine & gearbox mounts, all before it went in.

The vibration was there before and after so it's none of that or the engine. 

The driveshafts don't have play when handled at rest. Whatever it is has to be fairly major given the deep resonating sound is fairly loud. 

[Steve84N]

I took my car to a gearbox specialist this lunchtime and they said it's not showing signs of typical failure. They suggested running it up to speed on a ramp to listen/look for the source, maybe propshaft related. 

The one part I haven't replaced in the driveline, other than gearbox or differential, is the front guibo. The rear I have done and was rubber. The front is aluminium with bush inserts. The metal one is discontinued and replaced by exactly the same rubber one as on the rear. I've ordered one with new nuts & bolts for £54 on ebay. It's got to be worth a shot for the money/effort. 

[Steve84N]

Not much to see but shiny new engine just because... 

I've now got the rubber propshaft guibo so hopefully get that fitted next week and see what difference it makes. 

[Steve84N]

I got the car on my friend's lift this evening, with the intention of fitting the front rubber guibo. However, we ran it up to speed with the undertray off first to look/listen for the source of the noise... 

Unfortunately, it was blatantly coming from the back of the gearbox. It's clearly goosed, whether it's the output shaft bearing or gears I don't know. 

To top it off I think the vibration and deep resonating sound at 70mph plus is something else. The left rear wheel assembly was wobbling slightly when hanging freely in the air. I suspect it's the rough disc and maybe a sticky caliper. I've already got all the parts for a complete brake change, including discs/pads/caliper rebuild kit/braided hoses. May as well do that first and see if it solves that problem before looking at the wheel bearing. 

I'm not keen on buying the 69k mile gearbox from the crashed M135i up north, it's probably been ragged and already quite worn.

Instead, I've found one with only 1,250km from a 2015 M235i in the Netherlands for €1,450 ex VAT. Core charge is another €400 and they won't deliver to the UK. Thanks Brexit... 

They could ship to France where I have family for €200, including return postage for the old one. I'm now contemplating a road trip to pick it up in person and swap for my old one. That went down like a lead balloon with my wife but I think it's my best bet to get it working again at a half reasonable cost. 

This car is ruining me! 🤑

[duncan-uk]

I share your Brexit pain. My alfa import has been more complex because of it. Pre Brexit i could be running around on EU insurance whilst i await DVLA to accept my application. Instead its sat in the garage all shiny and MOT'd but unable to drive it....

[Steve84N]

@duncan-ukit really sucks. The only good thing I've noticed is that French speed camera tickets no longer follow you home anymore! 🤣

[Steve84N]

This is what an unhappy gearbox sounds like, backlash rattle and input shaft play. 

 

No wonder it sounded like a bag of bolts. It was also too hot to touch when taking it out after just a 10 mile easy journey.

[Andrew]

Ooft, sad thing is it's just a bearing that probably needs replacing but to do that it's a major operation needing all sorts of specialist kit in a 'box like that.

[Steve84N]

Quite possibly @Andrewalthough the third gear synchro was worn too. I'm now under the Channel on my way back with a shiny gearbox that's only covered 1,250km so fingers crossed that lasts me the next 100,000 miles. 

This is the place I got it from, they still have one more with a few more miles. Since I bought mine, they put the price of the other one up so I only paid about 40 euros more than this. 

https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-number/23007617492/part/gearbox/partid/17701403/supplier/100803/?_gl=1*1sue3g5*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTI2MDAwMzc2LjE3MDA0ODMzMzM.*_ga_ZD0DPYXQFB*MTcwMDQ4MzMzMy4xLjEuMTcwMDQ4MzM0MC4wLjAuMA..*_ga_0C06YS53D7*MTcwMDQ4MzMzMy4xLjEuMTcwMDQ4MzM0MC4wLjAuMA

Fitting commences around 16:30, subject to the M25... 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Steve84N

[Steve84N]

Slotted in like a dream. Did 3hrs work tonight, which included the final caliper rebuild. Only thing left is to bleed the brakes all round. 

The amount of shaft play isn't that much less than the old one. However, internally as you spin it there's no sound and it's buttery smooth, as it should be. 

I never thought I'd get this deep into this car, it was supposed to be a saving from my C63. I'll have to keep it as long as we're allowed to drive ICE to make it all worth it.