F11 535i Engine Failure

[Steve84N]

@Steve VHit's long out of warranty being a 2011 car.

BMWs are famous for eating conrod bearings and to a lesser extent main ones too in this era of models. 

[Percha]

plus it wasnt stock right?

[Steve84N]

@Perchano, it was tuned. That in itself shouldn't have made it fail as it was well below the capabilities of the stock internals. However, with worn bearings the extra stress won't have helped. 

 

[Percha]

What were the changes you made out of interest and what power/torque increase?

[Steve84N]

- Larger intercooler, doesn't add power, just stops you losing it from too high intake temperatures. 

- Sports cat downpipe, flows better and doesn't overheat like the stock restrictive cat can when tuned.

- MHD Stage 2+ remap, should be somewhere close to 400hp & 450lb/ft.

- Metal charge intake pipe, the plastic one sometimes splits even on stock boost. 

There are plenty of people running this setup or over 500hp if the turbo is upgraded. 

It was on my list to replace the conrod and main bearings, clearly didn't do it soon enough... 

[Percha]

- MHD Stage 2+ remap, should be somewhere close to 400hp & 450lb/ft.

Thats 33% more power than stock, as you say enough for sure to put extra strain on the engine. I agree I think you were unlucky but chances increase anytime you go to this level of upgrade. 

[Steve84N]

Some interesting forum threads:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1421754

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1430379

Quite a few stories of failed rod bearings, both stock and tuned. 

If I had an N55 with over 50k miles knowing what's happened to me now I'd seriously consider replacing them, or at the very least get an oil analysis done with each change. 

[Steve84N]

This is a table of power & torque outputs for the three stages of tuning open to me. Also, the N55 M2 for comparison. 

I'm probably still going to remap it again once the new engine is broken in but perhaps only to Stage 2, rather than the full Stage 2+.

Thinking is that's closer to the M2, in power at least, so not as far above the intended limit. Another 8-9% for 2+ isn't really needed, the car was awake enough on 2. It'll be in rude health, including new spark plugs, ignition coils and fuel injectors. Then use oil analysis to monitor bearing wear over the years/mileage... 

Then again the MHD guys say:

The engine didn't fail due to the tune, it was a hardware issue, those engines are capable of handling much more power than what the stock turbo can provide so any map will work if the mods are installed that are required for each stage.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Steve84N

[Andrew]

My oil change is due and was going to get an oil analysis done.

https://www.oilsampling.co.uk/store/Engine-Oil-Analysis-Kit-p170994399
 

Car Mechanics mag ran an article on it in the last couple of years, was going to dig out my back copies to find who they used. 
 

Ideally you need to catch the oil midstream as it comes out the sump so you don’t add any contaminants from your oil catch pan etc. 

[Andrew]

2 hours ago, Steve84N said:

Some interesting forum threads:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1421754

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1430379

Quite a few stories of failed rod bearings, both stock and tuned. 

 

What  I would like to know if any of these failures happened not long after having an oil cooler gasket replacement. 
 

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1829827

 

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1927482

I’ve read about bottom end failings due to starved of oil following oil cooler gaskets as they didn’t prime the (oil pump) engine after that job and then a few miles later…..

[skyjawa]

Oil analysis is great for piece of mind, first thing I had done when I bought my 530d, I used Millers Oils, was really easy and results back in a couple of weeks from sending off.

[Steve84N]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

What I would like to know if any of these failures happened not long after having an oil cooler gasket replacement. 

Well, I did change my OFHG twice. First time was not long after buying it, then again within the last few thousand miles. Both times I poured oil in the filter housing but didn't crank it without firing. You'd have thought if it was a problem it'd have failed after the first time. 

Phil didn't think it would cause oil starvation and likened it to an oil/filter change. 

[Steve84N]

Today's update is that my old engine is out and much of the work to swap ancillaries is done. Decided to reuse my almost brand new Pierburg metal water pump, despite it coming with one.

I'm trying to figure out exactly which version the N55B30A is. Most likely it's the same as mine, with forged conrods but cast everything else. I was secretly hoping it could be a later version when the N55 also gained a forged crankshaft. 

@Andrewmy old turbo had play in the wastegate shaft and cartridge wear in line with the mileage of the car. It's now been replaced with an exchange turbo already on the shelf with diverter valve. I believe you're closer to 60k miles? In which case, it's probably OK for a while yet. 

The new engine will go back in on Monday and then it should be job done.

[Andrew]

Yes just ticked over 61k.

I’m really enjoying seeing the pics of the engine out of the car, makes figuring out where everything is much easier. 

[Steve84N]

Yes, the turbo in particular is hard to see inside the car. If you ever do a water pump replacement I'd suggest changing the diverter valve too. I forgot and it's just behind the pump. Now my hand's been forced and I've got a new one anyway. 

[Andrew]

11 hours ago, Steve84N said:

I'd suggest changing the diverter valve too. I forgot and it's just behind the pump. 

Hmm the source of the squirrel in a food blender noise. 
 

Appreciate the advice, water pump is on my to do list but my very long and distant to do list. 

[Steve84N]

46 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Hmm the source of the squirrel in a food blender noise. 

I had a chirp that is audible often after changing gear or moving off, seemed to be linked to throttle on/off application. Sort of like a quack sound even.

Everything else I changed had no effect so I think it's the diverter valve, will see when I get it back. Also, my car was quite sluggish to build boost and that little valve has a part to play in that. 

[bmwmike]

On 22/09/2023 at 19:12, skyjawa said:

Oil analysis is great for piece of mind, first thing I had done when I bought my 530d, I used Millers Oils, was really easy and results back in a couple of weeks from sending off.

 

My n53 (now sold) was showing minor flecks of aluminium in the oil filter, as I used to inspect between the pleats at every change. Every oil filter in my ownership between 33k miles and 83k miles showed the same amount. A miller's oil analysis came up clean, as did a Blackstone labs one.

I reckon in my case it was cam bearing ledge wear or possibly timing chain related. Never affected how it ran so I ignored it.

@Steve84N interesting photos. Do you know what caused the failure yet or any plans to find out?

[Steve84N]

@bmwmikeI've asked if they can at least take off the oil pan to have a look. Understandably they don't want to do a full strip down and I don't want to add the labour cost of that on top of everything else...

I'm hoping there's something obvious that can be seen easily as I want to know. 

I haven't ever bothered inspecting my oil filter before as I've never needed to. Might start doing it now, albeit I should be trouble free for years with a new engine. 

[Andrew]

I recently enquired about an oil analysis kit.

They wanted nearly £40 to courier it to me. They wanted more to ship it to me than the cost of the testing.

I live ten minutes from Glasgow Airport on the Scottish Mainland. I live ten minutes drive from their couriers depot. Not in the Highlands or Islands.

I asked if they could send me it via Royal Mail which would cost about 1/10th of the price they quoted, they said if I bought two kits they would send me it free. 

[Steve84N]

@Andrewisn't a 'kit' just a bottle to send in a sample or are you talking about analysing it yourself at home? 

[Andrew]

No just to send me the empty bottle for me to fill was £38 over and above the cost of them doing the analysis.

My PA postcode is used to cover parts of Renfrewshire (Paisley, where Glasgow Airport is and 10 mins from my house) but also Oban way up north and includes the islands of Mull, Islay and Jura. I get the courier costs to the islands but not central belt of Scotland

They claim it's their couriers charge, but they said it was too difficult for them to go to the Post Office and use Royal Mail who don't discriminate on your postcode.

[bmwmike]

@Andrewwho was that with? Iirc Blackstone send the kit for free and you send it back at your cost plus a online fee. Miller's was pay online then get the kit sent out. I found the Blackstone one more concise. Miller's didn't even include fuel dilution until I specifically asked about it then I got a email back saying it was less than 2% but not on the actual report. Odd. Wouldn't recommend them tbh.

[Andrew]

29 minutes ago, bmwmike said:

@Andrewwho was that with? 

https://oilanalysislab.com/

As per recommended in Car Mechanics Mag.  Ppppffftttt

 

Just messaged these guys 

https://www.theoillab.co.uk/product-category/oil-testing/engine/

and shipping is included in the price and you can chose what tests you want.  And they will also test autobox oil too.

 

I looked at your Miller recommendations and the Blackstone I found was on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, were they UK when you used them?

[Steve84N]

Unfortunately, the saga continues... 

Upon testing to check everything is OK CPC found there is a vibration, most prevalent at around 2krpm. They have taken the gearbox back off to rule this out from being the problem, still there. Swapped the crankshaft damper pulley on the front for one they had lying around, still there.

They cannot be sure but they suspect the flywheel is bad, despite it only being under 5k miles old. It's possible this contributed to the demise of the old engine, maybe in combination with worn bearings. 

It's crazy to get this deep and put it back together with an issue. The flywheel isn't in stock in the UK or Germany, plus BMW want £1,400 for it, or £1,120 from Cotswold with discount. I paid £400 for a LUK one from Autodoc. 

My friend who runs a small business (the one I work on my car with) can source a LUK flywheel from his parts person in 3 days, supposedly coming from stock somewhere. That's the plan now, get that ASAP and fitted to see if the engine runs smooth.

Apart from that CPC said the new engine is super sweet, no noises etc just like you'd expect. I've been asked to settle the bill so far, which is fair enough as they owe Sytner for the engine.

£10,767, including 19.5hrs labour for the engine swap, 2hrs labour to track down this vibration, £6,100+VAT engine and £799+VAT exchange turbo. There's probably a bit more to pay to fit the flywheel but they said they'll try and help me out a bit on that. 

Edit: BMW Guildford have a flywheel in stock they'd sell to me with a 25% discount because it's been sat around gathering dust. £1,050 inc. VAT. That's my backup if the parts supplier order doesn't materialise. 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Steve84N