F10 520d 2015 LCI model, Active grille shutters seem to stay shut all the time ?

[Top2donkey]

Hi All

 

I've got a F10 520d 2015 model LCI and the oil temperature seems to get rather high sometimes, it can get up to 115 degreesC and each time i look through the grille on the front, the active shutters are always shut !, could this be a fault ? as i cant find any info on what would trigger them to open.

 

Also, I seem to have an issue with my Air con not working when its hot outside, for about the first 10 minutes of driving (car is cold and been off for 5+ hours) I had the aircon drained and refilled last year thinking it might be low on refrigerant, but although it made it slightly colder when its running, it still doesn't work for the first 5-15 minutes of driving and I cant figure out why ? If i have driven the car in the last hour or 2, the air con works straight away.

 

Cheers

[Percha]

Solenoid, radiator shutter

The passive solenoid-controlled (radiator shutter solenoid) radiator shutter control is installed in the front end.

The radiator shutter's solenoid serves to retain the radiator vent slats in their closed position.

The passive radiator shutter control regulates the air supply to the engine and the ancillary equipment's cooling by only opening the radiator shutter as required.

Functional description

The engine control system continuously calculates the required cooling. The engine control system only opens the radiator shutter when a higher level of cooling air is actually required.

While the vehicle is being driven, the closed radiator shutter reduces the warm-up phase of the engine, as operating temperature is reached more quickly if the environment is better encapsulated. The air flow through the radiator creates high aerodynamic drag as the driving speed increases. In higher road speed ranges, the closed radiator shutter improves the aerodynamics. This reduces fuel consumption and thus the emission value.

The solenoid for the radiator shutter is activated and deactivated directly by the engine control system (DME/DDE). The acronym DME stands for Digitale Motor Elektronik, while DDE is the abbreviated form of Digitale Diesel Elektronik, or Digital Diesel Electronics.

When voltage is applied to the electromagnet, the radiator shutter closes automatically and then remains in this position.

When power is disconnected from the electromagnet, the radiator shutter opens while the vehicle is being driven due to the air stream. When the vehicle is stationary or being driven slowly the air flow from the radiator fan opens the radiator shutter.

Setpoint values

Observe the following specification data for the radiator shutter's solenoid:

Size	Value
Voltage range	9 to 16 V
Temperature range	-40 to 110 deg C

Diagnosis instructions

Failure of the component:

Failure of the radiator shutter's solenoid will be accompanied by the following symptoms:

• An electrical malfunction in the automatic air flap control deactivates the radiator shutter's lock.
• The radiator shutter lock is also deactivated if a defect is detected at the coolant-temperature sensor or electric fan

Edited June 1, 2023 by Percha

[Percha]

Check connection first then start with, then check fault codes and coolant system/fan etc..

[olliecampbell]

Would I be right in thinking (not sure of the shutter orientation on the F10) but a non-opening shutter would also stop airflow from hitting the AC condenser, therefore not cooling the hot refrigerant....

[HandyAndy]

It's probably very similar to the setup in my old E61 525i N53.

I tested all the system components as good, then read through the required conditions for it to open.... I'd struggle to meet them going full chat round the Nurburgring on a summers day!

As long as your operating temperatures are good I wouldn't worry about ever seeing the louvres open.

[Andrew]

1 hour ago, HandyAndy said:

 

As long as your operating temperatures are good I wouldn't worry about ever seeing the louvres open.

This!

There are so many factors which need to be met for the vents to be opened or closed.

Although my car doesn't have controlled louvres, you can see them dangling open below.

The will open with the air ram effect but stay closed when stationary due to gravity.  My E60 had controlled louvers.

[Top2donkey]

Thankyou for the info everyone, I went out and drove up a long steep hill and got to the top and stopped and checked the rad vents and they were open for the first time ever !!!, So maybe they are ok after all and like you say, they just rarely open in normal driving.

My temperatures were radiator at 102 degreesC and oil temp at 109 degreesC, does this sound about normal ? It can get up to about 105 on the rad sometimes, and i've seen 115 on the oil before which is why i was thinking the radiator vents were stuck closed.

 

But the Air Con not working for the first bit of a journey is still an unsolved mystery, I guess more google digging is needed !

 

Thankyou

[0011718]

I've never seen my oil temp go past 100

Edited June 2, 2023 by 0011718

[Andrew]

12 hours ago, Top2donkey said:

My temperatures were radiator at 102 degreesC and oil temp at 109 degreesC, does this sound about normal ? It can get up to about 105 on the rad sometimes, and i've seen 115 on the oil before which is why i was thinking the radiator vents were stuck closed.

Those temps are normal.

[Liam2594]

I've never seen a B47 go above 100 on the gauge, usually with the B47 I've found it most of the time under. 

[Top2donkey]

On my drive home from work today (coast road from Lyme Regis to Weymouth) I left the diagnostic temperature display up for the whole journey, and the engine temperature went between 91 degreesC and 104 degreesC and the oil temp went between 99 and 109 which seemed to depend on whether i was going up or down the hills, and I followed a bus up a hill for a few minutes and that was when the temps went to oil 109 and coolant 104, but they came down fairly quickly as the road leveled out.

 

I never get any warning lights and doing a scan with Bimmerlink shown no temporary or permanent errors related to temperature. So i do wonder if its just normal and nothing to worry about, or whether i should start checking stuff (thermostat or radiators?)

[Kopfjaeger]

I can't say as I've noted delayed aircon working, beyond normal A/C circuit ramp up in my F07. Most car A/C systems don't full chill instantly. After initiation, the compressor has to ramp up and the refrigerant circuit needs to cycle, etc.  I do know that on some cars, the compressor operation is held off until the engine is up to operating temperature. This might depend on if the compressor is belt driven, or electrically powered. Depending on the age of the car, did you ever have the A/C system serviced? I don't think it's on the standard scope....It's like they only fix it if its broken, or you ask😆.  Seals can fail, the filter/ dryer can become waterlogged, etc.  Some models have replaceable dessicated/ dryer cartridges, others, you need to replace the whole condenser. If the Aircon isn't used regularly, the compressor is more likely to seize. I would be surprised if the A/C system would work well for more than 10 years without some PPM, etc. I've no idea who makes the compressors in BMW cars ( Brands listed in Autodoc aren't DX brands I'm used to as a Consultant in the Construction industry), but in my experience the Japanese compressors (Daikin, Hitachi, etc.) are better than European compressors.

[Liam2594]

1 hour ago, Top2donkey said:

On my drive home from work today (coast road from Lyme Regis to Weymouth) I left the diagnostic temperature display up for the whole journey, and the engine temperature went between 91 degreesC and 104 degreesC and the oil temp went between 99 and 109 which seemed to depend on whether i was going up or down the hills, and I followed a bus up a hill for a few minutes and that was when the temps went to oil 109 and coolant 104, but they came down fairly quickly as the road leveled out.

 

I never get any warning lights and doing a scan with Bimmerlink shown no temporary or permanent errors related to temperature. So i do wonder if its just normal and nothing to worry about, or whether i should start checking stuff (thermostat or radiators?)

Have you had the EGR cooler recall done?

[Top2donkey]

13 hours ago, Liam2594 said:

Have you had the EGR cooler recall done?

Not yet, I couldnt get any BMW garages near me (Weymouth) to book it in, and there's another airbag recall that i've been sent a letter for now as well, so i'm hoping that i can get them both done at the same time.

[Top2donkey]

14 hours ago, Kopfjaeger said:

I can't say as I've noted delayed aircon working, beyond normal A/C circuit ramp up in my F07. Most car A/C systems don't full chill instantly. After initiation, the compressor has to ramp up and the refrigerant circuit needs to cycle, etc.  I do know that on some cars, the compressor operation is held off until the engine is up to operating temperature. This might depend on if the compressor is belt driven, or electrically powered. Depending on the age of the car, did you ever have the A/C system serviced? I don't think it's on the standard scope....It's like they only fix it if its broken, or you ask😆.  Seals can fail, the filter/ dryer can become waterlogged, etc.  Some models have replaceable dessicated/ dryer cartridges, others, you need to replace the whole condenser. If the Aircon isn't used regularly, the compressor is more likely to seize. I would be surprised if the A/C system would work well for more than 10 years without some PPM, etc. I've no idea who makes the compressors in BMW cars ( Brands listed in Autodoc aren't DX brands I'm used to as a Consultant in the Construction industry), but in my experience the Japanese compressors (Daikin, Hitachi, etc.) are better than European compressors.

I have the windows open when i start a journey now and I can hear when the compressor clutch clicks in and I can then hear the hiss of the gases circulating round the system, but this can take 10+ minutes if the car has heat soaked in the sun for hours. In the winter, the air con compressor cuts in instantly and demists straight away, so its linked to being slow to start when its hot in the car from sunshine heat (not engine heat).

 

I had the aircon serviced last year where they drained it down fully under vacuum to check for leaks with uv dye, then refilled it about an hour later with the correct amounts of refrigerant and oil and it was a bit colder after that, but still had the starting delay if it hadnt been driven for a few hours in hot sunshine, but they couldnt diagnose that bit as i had driven it to them with the aircon on, and it was working ok by the time I got to the garage, so it was only the next day that i noticed it wasnt any better on the startup time.

[Kopfjaeger]

If the car has been sat in the hot sun, it stands to reason that the engine bay will be hot. So the compressor, whilst not on will also be hot. It is possible at start-up in these conditions, it is too hot to run until the temperature, drops by virtue of the engine bay being cooled by forced ventilation. It's a safety feature and will save the compressor from burning out and giving you a large bill.  I've had first hand experience of compressors on ventilation equipment failing due to inadequate ventilation/ cooling, as a result of tampering with the thermal protection settings. The surface temperature on compressors running and recently switched off, I've experience of, are too hot to touch. Most are sealed inside a metal 'can', so adequate ventilation is vital to ensure adequate operation.

So it makes sense that your A/C doesn't run instantly when you turn it on in hot conditions.  As a matter of habit, I never switch the A/C on in my Car until the engine is up to operating temperature....passengers may complain, briefly, but then they don't won't to pay for the repair bills, if I acquiesce to their request before the engine is running at temperature🤣.

[Top2donkey]

25 minutes ago, Kopfjaeger said:

If the car has been sat in the hot sun, it stands to reason that the engine bay will be hot. So the compressor, whilst not on will also be hot. It is possible at start-up in these conditions, it is too hot to run until the temperature, drops by virtue of the engine bay being cooled by forced ventilation. It's a safety feature and will save the compressor from burning out and giving you a large bill.  I've had first hand experience of compressors on ventilation equipment failing due to inadequate ventilation/ cooling, as a result of tampering with the thermal protection settings. The surface temperature on compressors running and recently switched off, I've experience of, are too hot to touch. Most are sealed inside a metal 'can', so adequate ventilation is vital to ensure adequate operation.

So it makes sense that your A/C doesn't run instantly when you turn it on in hot conditions.  As a matter of habit, I never switch the A/C on in my Car until the engine is up to operating temperature....passengers may complain, briefly, but then they don't won't to pay for the repair bills, if I acquiesce to their request before the engine is running at temperature🤣.

Maybe this is normal for a BMW then ? but compared to my wife's older Vauxhall Astra, my cars air con is quite a bit worse, as hers kicks in within 10 seconds of starting and within 60 seconds she has nice cold air, In my F10, we can be 10 minutes into the journey before getting any cold air !

[HandyAndy]

Might suggest a fault with the internal temperature sensor, perhaps. Not 100% sure but I think it may be visible in the left side of the dash centre vent. Possibly failed / gunged up / disconnected.... worth a check.

 

Just looked on RealOEM... on my F11N the sensors are in the distribution unit...

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=5K12-EUR-09-2013-F11N-BMW-530d&diagId=64_1655

Edited June 3, 2023 by HandyAndy
Additional info

[Top2donkey]

3 hours ago, HandyAndy said:

Might suggest a fault with the internal temperature sensor, perhaps. Not 100% sure but I think it may be visible in the left side of the dash centre vent. Possibly failed / gunged up / disconnected.... worth a check.

 

Just looked on RealOEM... on my F11N the sensors are in the distribution unit...

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=5K12-EUR-09-2013-F11N-BMW-530d&diagId=64_1655

That's an interesting idea, and I guess there are other temperature sensors dotted through the system that could be faulty or misreading a bit.

 

I wonder if i can see the temperature readings with Bimmerlink ? or would that be an ISTA thing (which i don't have yet)

[Kopfjaeger]

I'm not sure about it being a defective sensor as the cause.  I also doubt there are multiple sensors, in the sense of in the ducting system. Usually just the external ambient sensor and a cabin sensor.  There is usually one sensor per zone. So if you have 4 zone A/C, you would have 4 zone / cabin sensors. The ECU controlling the A/C will have access to the external ambient sensor so will control the A/C operation.If there are any Refrigeration Engineers in the forum, maybe they could chip in? My wife's fiesta's AC also doesn't come on instantly, taking several minutes to deliver full cooling. So I doubt that it has a fault. I'm assuming its a common safety design feature in the absence of clarification.

[Kopfjaeger]

I've done some digging and found the attached that might be useful.....

Interesting that the diagram of the A/C system appears to be a LHD BMW....

I haven't read it, but thought it worth sharing with the forum.

kompaktwissen-ac-fahrzeugklimatisierung-en-screen.pdf

[HandyAndy]

(moved to correct thread)

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by HandyAndy