E39 Reverse camera thread

[Sharkfan]

Any ideas or suggestions for reverse camera installations for E39's - post them here please. Whether they worked or failed - let people know so we can all learn what works and what doesn't please.

I'm specifically after suggestions for my Touring - whether to go for wired or wireless camera and also find a decent camera to integrate into the section that contains the number plate lights.

[PZero]

Beat me to it! I started a few notes offline last night following my install this weekend (which I may or may not uninstall!), so the below is copied and pasted, I've not just written all of this up since you started the thread a few minutes ago 🙂. Photos to follow.

 

 

2002 E39 Touring, with aftermarket Head Unit
Note although some of the below may apply to any such install, my trials and tribulations relate to using an aftermarket head unit, NOT for retro fitting to official BMW systems. Previous owner had ditched the OEM headunit, CD changer, TV tuner etc, so I can't piggyback existing system as far as I know. I note that @Dbcrd has had a wireless cam in his Touring for years with no issues, but he is using the existing BMW wiring. 

If it wasn't for seeing that there are wireless cameras available, I would not have even attempted this. Trying to squeeze the required cabling through the already jam packed rubber tubes between body and tailgate strikes me as next to impossible, and given how prone the 20 year old tiny wires in there are to breaking anyway, no way I would even try.

Now admittedly the camera and wireless transmitter / receiver which I am using here is a cheap generic eBay thing. However it performed faultlessly out of the car (tested by running all components from a 12v battery on lounge floor with cam plugged into TV), so the problems experienced below I believe are on the car side of things, not the camera / wireless equipment. Went cheap initially just to see if a reverse cam was going to be of any use to me, instead of going all in blind  on the top range Kenwood camera to match my head unit, having a nightmare cabling it through the tailgate and then finding that it wasn't worth the effort.
 

1. Static lines across image / cam blacking out intermittantly.
Possible causes which occur to me :

- Wireless interference as transmission is 2.4GHz, the same frequency as just about every wireless router puts out amongst other. Living in a fairly densely populated area, there are very places I can pull over to test this without being in someones wi-fi coverage. I'll be working out in the countryside later this week, will find a layby in middle of nowhere to test this theory out. Mind you, I didn't find this issue when testing it in the same room as my wireless router initially, so maybe not. - RULED OUT BY TESTING

- Insufficient or fluctuating power. Markings on the transmitter and receiver indicate that it requires 9v-14v. Testing it out of the car before install hooked up to TV in the lounger, I powered both from a 9v battery initially, and then a 12v battery, both fine and stable. But since splicing into the cars, not so great. Unknown if power could be the issue here. - MOST LIKELY, GIVEN ISSUES WITH TRIGGERING WHICH HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE POWER (and now resolved).

- Obstruction between the transmitter & Receiver.  Unlikely, receiver positioned immediately behind head unit, transmitter attached to upper inside wall of tailgate. On my test drive I still had rear seats down as well, so only a single sheet of metal and plastic trim between them over a distance of ~3m. For testing during install I had the transmitter out of the car altogether, on floor behind closed tailgate and picture was fine for the seconds which I powered it up for at a time off separate 12v battery. - NOPE

- Interference from engine or other car component. During install, testing was just done on ignition position, not engine running. No issues seen during that testing, so might be like an old stereo I had on my first Ford Fiesta, picking up engine 'noise'. That said, the pattern and nature of the interference doesn't change with engine operation, completely random. - ALSO NOPE.

 

2. Trigger wire being tripped / switching to cam view for a second then back repeatedly when engine running but not in reverse. - FIXED
Suspect that this is the car pinging the bulbs periodically, as head unit trigger cable is tapped into reverse light wire. Aware of cold checks when starting the car up, but a quick google suggests that bulbs are checked periodically whilst engine running as well. Wonder if these could be coded out via the LCM... Not that I have ever done any coding and wouldn't know how. Only other way I can think of around this might be to see if I can identify and tap a PDC wire for camera triggering instead. Can't think of anything else I could connect trigger to, open to suggestions!

 

3. Poor downwards view (on touring at least). The only sensible place to fit a cam on an E39 touring is under the boot handle, next to the boot open switch. The flat top of rear bumper sticks out further than this though, and obscures the bottom of the view which would have been the most useful part. Doesn't matter how wide angle the lens is, unless it can see round corners you  can't see the ground close enough to the back of the car to be much use. Any dreams I may have had of parking perfectly in line with rear of a parking bay are shattered.
Note also that as the camera will not be dead centre, the parking guide overlay will likely be a little off from reality or if like mine are adjustable, have to be skewed to match. - MEH< GOTTEN USED TO IT!

 

4. Permanent power to camera or power from reverse lights?
A question I've seen debated on a few forums in my research ahead of doing this.

- Wiring to something which is powered constantly when ignition on means camera is on and ready at all times, but have read that apparently some cameras can overheat if constantly powered, resulting in thermal shutdown until cool, then they heat up again, thermal shutdown etc. Plus there is no constant power in the tailgate, and I went wireless to avoid having to run wiring through the already packed out rubber tubes from body into tailgate (FYI If I was to run a cable back from tailgate to body for power, I'd tap the antenna module in the rear left pillar).

- Powering from light means camera only on when needed, mine takes less than a second to power up when reverse engaged, I can live with that. But it's caused me a catch 22 situation which didn't occur to me prior to install. With my Kenwood headunit, I can adjust the parking guidelines... but if I'm not in reverse then the camera isn't powered, so I can't see the video feed to base the lines off. And if I go into reverse to see the feed, head unit switches to reverse mode, which overrides the guide setup screen. Sigh.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by PZero

[Sharkfan]

Thanks for posting that - I'll find a quiet moment to read through properly but it does sound like not plain sailing.

 

Meanwhile, while trying to search for someone on how to refill the hydraulic tailgate reservoir I stumbled on the BMW TIS instructions for how to install the reverse camera - I'm just not tecky enough to know how to copy the PDF and post it in full on here....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lkTjStu7oH1sp-fxf_pLtGAN95lIeL2F/view

[Dbcrd]

I haven't had time to read much of this. 

In any case for the touring there is a standard BMW retrofit camera kit.  It replaces the pull handle recess in the taligate which to my mind is less than ideal.

There are also cameras that replace one of the number plate lamps.  To my mind they look crap.

I did not fit standard BMW wiring.  I used a £8 camera from ebay and a wireless kit. It all feeds into my android head unit.

What I did was I modified the trunk lid grip part number 51137051529 to incorporate a camera.  

I used this camera. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402929055699

Or one similar.   At that time it was about £8. To fit it I had to carefully reduce the length of the threaded portion carrying the cable into the car.  I destroyed one camera testing the required length but no great loss.

I'm not a fan of tapping into lighting circuits to actually power things.  So I used relays.

In the left hand boot cubby is a relay powered by the redundant CD changer power supply connector.

A 3 core cable goes up to the speaker area in the roof and picks up a reverse light wire and sends it back to the relay amd brings back the relay switched power.  So that only one thin cable goes through the actual grommets to the taligate.  A relay switched power cable live when reverse is engaged. 

Inside the tailgate I have one of those 12V wireless phone transmitters connected to the camera and powered by the relay.  Camera also powered by the same feed from the relay.

At the front of the car I tapped into a reverse power wire coming out of the LCM on the right and ran a wire right across the dash to below the fuse box behind the glove box.  I used a very robustly insulated cable and fitted a very low current rating inline fuse at the LCM end.  This was in case the wire chafed and shorted anything.  I think I remember also sleeving that wire.

I fitted an extra fuse in a redundant space in the fusebox and powered a relay energised from the LCM cable.

That relayed reverse power I sent to the wireless receiver I fitted behind the head unit and the reverse signal connector on the head unit.

Works a treat.  Did this in 2019 and posted on the old forum I think.

Sorry about the pic.  I took it in the dark.  Only my opinion but i think it looks better than OEM and i don't lose the tailgate pull recess.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Dbcrd

[PZero]

Thanks @Dbcrd, my mistake about you fitting to a BMW system, it was your mention of tapping into the CD changer wiring which lead me to presume that.

Interesting, as although the CD Changer from mine is long gone, the wiring remains so I could take power from that CD changer connector too, if I can figure out which one it is. Also food for thought about tapping at the front off of the LCM. I couldn't even say where the LCM is, not had to do anything with it thus far, but worth considering. 

Your camera appears to be same as mine, although mine was supplied as a bundle with the transmitter / receiver pair. Considered relays, but didn't think it necessary until I had installed it and found problems, mind you.

I wish the old forums were still around, sounds like something I's VERY much like to read as you seem to be using same cam and likely transmission gear as me, but with none of the issues!

 

 

[Dbcrd]

That took me a few weeks to do.  Believe me there were one or two issues and electrics are one of the things I can do after a fashion.

[Dbcrd]

12 hours ago, PZero said:

Thanks @Dbcrd, my mistake about you fitting to a BMW system, it was your mention of tapping into the CD changer wiring which lead me to presume that.

Interesting, as although the CD Changer from mine is long gone, the wiring remains so I could take power from that CD changer connector too, if I can figure out which one it is. Also food for thought about tapping at the front off of the LCM. I couldn't even say where the LCM is, not had to do anything with it thus far, but worth considering. 

Your camera appears to be same as mine, although mine was supplied as a bundle with the transmitter / receiver pair. Considered relays, but didn't think it necessary until I had installed it and found problems, mind you.

I wish the old forums were still around, sounds like something I's VERY much like to read as you seem to be using same cam and likely transmission gear as me, but with none of the issues!

 

 

The LCM is on the right above the bonnet release, behind a panel. Googling the wiringo diagrams you can find out the colour of the reverse wire.  Easier than trying to get to the reverse switch near the gear shift I thought.

My suggestion is not to actually cut that wire.  You can use a scotchlock if you like but I personally hate them and consider them unreliable.

I pared back some of the insulation and soldered in the wire end from an inline fuse holder to which I fitted a very low rating fuse (I think 1a was the smallest I could get).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164808546032

That sort of thing.  It's to protect the LCM from a short in that wire.  I wrapped the joint with a good load of self annealing tape (i don't trust insulating tape as it eventually comes apart).

Personally I solder all my wire connections for projects like this rather than crimps or using scotchlocks.  In places where the wires are not subject to flexing.  This might start off a whole thread of people's solder vs crimp preferences - it has in the past.  But I've been doing it for years with zero issues so far.  Did all the tailgate harness that way and much easer to hide the joints than with fat crimps.  I use a gas powered iron I think I got from Aldi or Lidl as it's a bit more powerful than  the 25W antex I use indoors.  The thing is outdoors the iron's tips cool down more.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Dbcrd

[PZero]

Will update this thread shortly, got caught out by the URL change, faff around logging back in to the site after the change, and then a generally busy week.

Reverse trigger is my biggest headache with this right now, as it's triggering every few minutes as previously, but after having driven the car for a week I realise that everytime it is triggered, overrides anything which my android auto HU was doing at the time, so listening to and replying to messages, and giving any voice commands are interrupted most of the time and fail. Incredibly annoying, so much so that I'm going to disconnect the trigger wire until I can find a proper solution.

Currently exploring hooking the reverse trigger from the PDC module, which appears to have been the method of choice for X5's of the same age. Had hoped that I could piggyback off a fuse for PDC, but it appears that there are no fuses listed as being involved in PDC, to my surprise / disappointment. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by PZero

[Dbcrd]

On 26/11/2022 at 13:22, PZero said:

Will update this thread shortly, got caught out by the URL change, faff around logging back in to the site after the change, and then a generally busy week.

Reverse trigger is my biggest headache with this right now, as it's triggering every few minutes as previously, but after having driven the car for a week I realise that everytime it is triggered, overrides anything which my android auto HU was doing at the time, so listening to and replying to messages, and giving any voice commands are interrupted most of the time and fail. Incredibly annoying, so much so that I'm going to disconnect the trigger wire until I can find a proper solution.

Currently exploring hooking the reverse trigger from the PDC module, which appears to have been the method of choice for X5's of the same age. Had hoped that I could piggyback off a fuse for PDC, but it appears that there are no fuses listed as being involved in PDC, to my surprise / disappointment. 

 

 

Regardless of where you get the signal from up front.  If you are only using the trigger voltage to provide a logical signal to the head unit then you might be able to send it direct.  I always use a low value fuse in line in case the connecting wire shorts though.

If you are planning to simultaneously power the wirelss receiver so it is only energised when in reverse and not wasting power, then i would use a relay.  

I suspect you will ultimately end up going for a signal from the LCM as I did but I may be wrong and will be following with interest.

[PZero]

9 hours ago, Dbcrd said:

If you are only using the trigger voltage to provide a logical signal to the head unit then you might be able to send it direct.

If I can find something other than reverse light to feed from, this may work. But at present, that's what causing the issue I have with repeated and continual flicking to cam and back when not in reverse every time the bulb is checked (I believe). If the wire from LCM to reverse bulb doesn't go through any other modules on the way i.e. is one continuous run, then tapping it at front or rear of the car shouldn't make a difference? Or are there any other modules or whatever inline between LCM and bulb? For the record, I'm tapping it up in the roof above one of the rear speakers, thus avoiding having to feed additional wires through rubber into tailgate itself.

Got a couple of relays and inline fuses on order, coming in next few days. The 'pulse' to the reverse bulb appears to be very brief, as the headunit is getting signal to switch over to camera video feed, but not getting time to do so before power to trigger wire is gone resulting in black screen for a second then back to normal display. Disconnecting the trigger wire from the bulb stops the head unit flicking back and forth, and powering the trigger wire directly from a 12v battery results in stable solid camera feed, so has to be power fluctuating on the reverse bulb wire. Also confirmed definitely no loose connections / earthing along the way. The fact that most people who've gotten reverse cams working by tapping reverse lighting seem to be using a relay makes me wonder / hope that the pulse to check bulb is so small or brief that it's not enough to trip the relay, resulting in connection only being made when bulb is actually lit and continuous power applied. Guess I'll find out when my relays arrive...

Been reading a lot of forum posts about this on E39's and other cars both BMW and otherwise. For the E53 X5's the PDC module appears to be a favourite place to tap, using a relay with the coil fed by the power from PDC module to the LED in the PDC button up front, triggering the relay to allow a 12v feed through. This is done from pin 7 of the middle/black plug for the E53.

Looking into whether this could be used for E39 module in case a straight forward relay from reverse light fails, but PDC module differs between E39 and X53 it appears though, so although principle is the same, identifying correct pin / wire may not be so straight forward. Multimeter on the pin used for the E53 results in no voltage when in reverse... But this might be because the plug is disconnected when I'm checking it, so none of the other pins have power either. Without taking the plug apart, hard to tell which wire is which pin, and tapping them one by one with it plugged in until I get a hit (if at all) is not something I want to try right now. 

 

My trigger wire headaches aside, as for fitting, I drilled it in between the boot release handle and one of the license plate lights. Looks to be same kind of thing as yours. The post behind it which goes through boot handle was pretty long, but just fitted without hitting the actual tailgate metal itself when handle refitted. Would have liked to have had it more over towards the handle, but construction of the inside of the handle prevented drilling through safely there.

 

Wiring and transmitter tucked away in tailgate, just cable tied in place in top left corner of photo for now whilst I faff around with this damn thing. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by PZero
Formatting

[Dbcrd]

18 hours ago, PZero said:

The fact that most people who've gotten reverse cams working by tapping reverse lighting seem to be using a relay makes me wonder / hope that the pulse to check bulb is so small or brief that it's not enough to trip the relay, resulting in connection only being made when bulb is actually lit and continuous power applied. Guess I'll find out when my relays arrive

I suspect the problem is bulb check pulse is providing an adequate logical signal to trigger the head unit.

If you use a relay that pulse will not be sufficient to energise the relay and problem solved.

That is what i did.  I fitted the relay under the fuse box on the left side of the car.  Energised it from a tap on the LCM with an inline fuse right by the LCM.  Fitted quite a thick wire behind the dash to the relay.  Thick for robustness rather than current capacity or voltage drop as relays are high impedance and take very little power.

Switched power for the relay to the head unit (and wireless receiver) from a fuse i added to the fusebox in a spare way (there are connectors you can buy for that).

As an aside i try to use relays where i can for this type of mod as it keeps the mod (some might say bodge?) fairly well isolated from the exisiting system.

I also used a relay to power both the reverse cam and the wireless transmitter.  I also took the relay energising signal from the wiring behind the speaker.  I sent it down to the cd changer area and used the redundant cd changer power supply as the relay switched power feed. I used a 2 or 3 core cable so I could send reverse signal down and relay switched power back up.  Then sent a single wire down and into the tailgate if i recall.  Transmiiter also fixed inside the tailgate.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Dbcrd

[Dbcrd]

18 hours ago, PZero said:

The post behind it which goes through boot handle was pretty long, but just fitted without hitting the actual tailgate metal itself when handle refitted.

Same with mine but i carefully cut the threaded tube down a bit with a dremel.  Had to be accurate as there was barely enough thread left for the nut.  Cost me one camera as i cut too much and damaged the wire.

I think mine may have been in a slightly different place.  I posted it on the old forum so may be able to dig out a pic.

[PZero]

4 hours ago, Dbcrd said:

I posted it on the old forum so may be able to dig out a pic.

Alas, already tried that but what's left of the site is mostly un-navigable. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack when most of the haystack has blown away, taking the needle with it.  

[Sharkfan]

Bits of the original forum are accessible on the wayback machine but it’s hit and miss as to which threads (and even which parts of threads) are saved and available to view 😞

[Jerome]

If you have the original widescreen radio a reversing camera can be added. I've done it and it works great.

I used a camera that fits in the number plate light (Touring), it includes a small LED so it still illuminates the number plate, viewing angle is the same as modern vehicle.

Key piece of info is this pinout of the video module:http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/444973

And you need an automotive relay to switch the camera on when reverse is engaged, the video module then switches the widescreen to camera feed automatically. Since video module is in the boot it saves having to wire to the front of the car.

[Sharkfan]

1 hour ago, Jerome said:

If you have the original widescreen radio a reversing camera can be added. I've done it and it works great.

I used a camera that fits in the number plate light (Touring), it includes a small LED so it still illuminates the number plate, viewing angle is the same as modern vehicle.

Key piece of info is this pinout of the video module:http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/444973

And you need an automotive relay to switch the camera on when reverse is engaged, the video module then switches the widescreen to camera feed automatically. Since video module is in the boot it saves having to wire to the front of the car.

Can you remember what camera you bought please? I can remember from the old forum that it was relatively easy to find one to fit a saloon but Tourings have different number plate lights and so were harder to find.

[Dbcrd]

On 02/12/2022 at 17:30, Sharkfan said:

Can you remember what camera you bought please? I can remember from the old forum that it was relatively easy to find one to fit a saloon but Tourings have different number plate lights and so were harder to find.

I looked at a number of those when I fitted my camera and even bought one.  I wasn't happy with the look or quality all.  Mine ended up in the bin.  Maybe there are better ones but I never found one.

The one I used I think I posted above and I also think it's similar to the one PZero used.

Remember with that solution you need more wires through the tailgate grommets as well.

Here are some pics of mine.  Similar to OEM retrofit without losing the tailgate pull "handle" / switch.

If you have a video module in the boot you can still use a wireless transmitter if desired.

[Dbcrd]

And here is what I found for the OEM solution.  I didn't think it was that elegant.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ge39.com/files/e39%2520touring%2520rearview%2520camera%2520retrofit.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjToICzo-H7AhUJgFwKHdwnBeoQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0P1yADg_nhuSylmrLiGqV9

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Dbcrd

[PZero]

Been a while since I've updated here, but thank Royal Mail for that. Ordered relevant relays, fuse holders etc end of Nov, only arrived yesterday.

Pleased to report that the switching / trigger issue has been resolved with relay. Guess that the blips to check the reverse bulb aren't strong or long enough to energise the coil, but actually being in reverse i.e. constant power to the bulb provides sufficient power. Now switches back and forth on demand only, no more periodic false triggering. Yay!

Still have to tackle the camera power however. REALLY not looking forward to trying to poke a wire through the rubber boot at top of hatch to get to the body for constant 12v though. Nightmares about breaking any of the wires already in there!

 

 

[Dbcrd]

1 hour ago, PZero said:

Been a while since I've updated here, but thank Royal Mail for that. Ordered relevant relays, fuse holders etc end of Nov, only arrived yesterday.

Pleased to report that the switching / trigger issue has been resolved with relay. Guess that the blips to check the reverse bulb aren't strong or long enough to energise the coil, but actually being in reverse i.e. constant power to the bulb provides sufficient power. Now switches back and forth on demand only, no more periodic false triggering. Yay!

Still have to tackle the camera power however. REALLY not looking forward to trying to poke a wire through the rubber boot at top of hatch to get to the body for constant 12v though. Nightmares about breaking any of the wires already in there!

 

 

Great.  I thought a relay would work.  High inpedence low current not seen by the pulse for bulb check.  They are often used for trailer wiring for that reason.

If you follow what i did.  Maybe not explained as well as I could have. Only one more wire needs to go down into the tailgate.  A live feed for the camera and transmitter.  Only live when reverse is engaged.  Does not need to be a very big wire as the current draw even for both of those is low.

I used silicone multi strand flexible auto wire due to the flexing around the hinge.  The wires BMW used usually break eventually.

In any case I replaced all the other tailgate wires with a silicone harness kit becuase of other issues.  It's only one more wire.

[PZero]

Thank dbcrd, I know where to run the wire but the issue in my case is actually doing it.
It's not the exit grommet from the bottom of the tailgate / beneath the glass window trim which worries me (althought it should, as both are corroded to hell and back), more the top end where it enters car above headliner, next to the hinge. Pretty fully populated, bent and due to its bellows design likely to snag a lot, pushing even the single thin wire I need to get body-side of the car through there looks like agro. Guess I'll find out at the weekend!

 

 

 

[Dbcrd]

I can't remeber how i did it.  I think I pushed a stiff wire down making sure the end wasnt sharp and avoided scraping existing wires or piercing the grommet.  To that i had soldered the new wire to pull through.  You have to sort of play it by ear.

In any case I would recommend replacing the harnesses while you are in there.  You will avoid failure of hatch or tailgate or issues with lights down the line.

The kits come with new grommets.  You can run one more wire down for the positive feed for camera and transmitter.

I never used the crimps that came with the kit on my car but used soldered joins and heatshrink.  I don't like crimps and the bulk of them is hard to hide in the channel down the tailgate.  I also staggered the joins for the same reason.

This is the sort of kit I used.  Not sure if the one below is silicone or not but looks reasonable quality.

https://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=194519187440&category=33578&pm=1&ds=0&t=1659152551000&ver=0&cspheader=1

[norseman]

I've got a camera fitted into one of the rear #plate light apertures, facilitated by a Xtrons android. Works very well but hasn't prevented the very occasional 'mis judgment' during reversing though!

The only minor downside is that the cluster shows 'check #plate lights' when turning the key, I assume due to the lower resistance of the LED's but I can live with that.

[Dbcrd]

9 hours ago, norseman said:

I've got a camera fitted into one of the rear #plate light apertures, facilitated by a Xtrons android. Works very well but hasn't prevented the very occasional 'mis judgment' during reversing though!

The only minor downside is that the cluster shows 'check #plate lights' when turning the key, I assume due to the lower resistance of the LED's but I can live with that.

I think it is due to the LED bulbs.  That warning can be coded out or resistors fitted.  The latter being a band aid cure.

For the E39 touring the number plate light cameras don't fit as far as I am aware, they only fit the saloon.

For the saloon there is also available a more elegant (in my opinion) solution of a replacement boot handle with integrated camera.

 

[norseman]

3 hours ago, Dbcrd said:

I think it is due to the LED bulbs.  That warning can be coded out or resistors fitted.  The latter being a band aid cure.

 

 

I have heard that somewhere, come Springtime I'll look into having that done .. to much going on at the moment.