F10/11 getting needy in old age!

[Apples12]

63 plate/520d here

Just ticked over 200,000 miles, owned since jan16 at 33k miles. 

I've only had the following unexpected items go

1. Coolant flange (although this happened after engine mount change and I'm convinced the mechanic put too much pressure on the hose)

2. Recently, rocker cover gasket (should have been replaced when I had the timing chain done but wasn't)

3. Timing chain, guides, tensioner replaced as preventative maintenance

4. It's on its 4th set of engine mounts

Other preventative maintenance done:

1. Drive belt pulleys etc incl vibration damper all done

2. Dpf cleaned (and egr delete done)

3. All suspension bits refreshed with lemforder

4. 10k miles/6mo oil changes (same shell ect oil and Mann filters)

5. Only ever had BP fuel in it since I've owned it (fuel card) and a bottle of forte injector cleaner every few months

Has to have been one of the most reliable cars I've owned thus far. Prior to our own business taking off in the last 2-3yrs, I was doing 35-40k miles a year on the motorways. Since cov lockdowns, dropped to closer to 15k if that. Commute is now 3miles one way as opposed to 50-120 one way.

The car has been driven hard it's entire time with me and will continue to be.

Since my driving habits have changed, I've definitely noticed more niggly bits starting but nothing unexpected given the age and mileage.

Roll on announcement of the x5 lci and we'll be confirming our order of a 45e/50e

 

 

 

 

[Steve VH]

Does anyone on here own an early 2010 onwards 528i, the earlier ones were 6 cylinder? How are you finding it.

[duncan-uk]

Do you mean the 523i that had a 3.0 six?

[Steve VH]

45 minutes ago, duncan-uk said:

Do you mean the 523i that had a 3.0 six?

No the 528i, original F10 with a 6 cylinder petrol engine, later on substituted for a 4 cylinder.

[duncan-uk]

Yeh same N53B30 engine just rated 258 rather than 204bhp - didn't realise there was a 528i - but yes its in my brochure!

[Calypso-E34]

45 minutes ago, Steve VH said:

No the 528i, original F10 with a 6 cylinder petrol engine, later on substituted for a 4 cylinder.

I didn't know that there was ever a 6 cylinder F10 528i.  Every day is a school day I guess!  Same craic with the F10 525d - the one I had, a 2010 car, was a 3.0 six.  This changed fairly early on I think, to a 4 cylinder.

I have had a 2016 520d for over a year now.  It doesn't have the nice character of the six, but it's ok as long as you don't rev it too hard.  Does most things well enough, and has been reliable and efficient.

[duncan-uk]

I can confirm mine is a six though not 3.5l as badge might suggest 🙄

[bmwmike]

6 hours ago, Steve VH said:

Does anyone on here own an early 2010 onwards 528i, the earlier ones were 6 cylinder? How are you finding it.

 

I had the 272ps 530i (same basic n53 engine as the 528i/523i) until recently, and apart from a new set of injectors early on in my ownership the engine was very reliable. On the engine apart from maintenance it had a new set of coilpacks and a CCV replacement. Rest of the car needed the usual f10 stuff by 75k though - rear shocks, rear springs, front arms x2, grommet, door corrosion, x1 wheel bearing, etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by bmwmike

[Steve VH]

5 hours ago, bmwmike said:

 

I had the 272ps 530i (same basic n53 engine as the 528i/523i) until recently, and apart from a new set of injectors early on in my ownership the engine was very reliable. On the engine apart from maintenance it had a new set of coilpacks and a CCV replacement. Rest of the car needed the usual f10 stuff by 75k though - rear shocks, rear springs, front arms x2, grommet, door corrosion, x1 wheel bearing, etc.

 

 

 

 

Had, would you have another?

[bmwmike]

2 hours ago, Steve VH said:

Had, would you have another?

 

Never say never but probably not. I owned this one 7 years and I fancied a change !

If you do buy one injector availability is currently an issue I believe. 

Edit to add it's a lovely engine. Best matched with the auto, ideally sport auto, on the F10. When it's running right it's a peach and it revs cleanly to 7000 rpm and can be lazy or as sporty as you like. I found it much more eager at mid to top end than the 535i personally but have only driven one and perhaps there was something wrong with that one. N53 sounds great above idle with nice induction noise around mid range and above. The idle is a little diesely sounding as it is a high compression direct injection engine but not as bad if you put one next to a 2.0d the n53 sounds quiet in comparison and not at all like an actual diesel.

I'd have another n53 in a 330i for example. Just don't think I'll have another F10 528i/530i, maybe F10 m5, but probably something else in mind.

Hth

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by bmwmike

[Steve84N]

I've had two cars with the N52 engine in, an e91 330i and e86 Z4 Coupe, both manuals. The 330i felt slow and the weight really dulled the performance whereas it really suited the Z4. 

The N55 in the 535i pre-LCI does lack top end punch because the boost falls off a cliff after 5krpm. The later cars with electronic instead of pneumatic wastegate also gained a larger compressor wheel and larger diameter exhaust downpipe so they make better top end power. 

I wouldn't pick an NA six in a 5 Series based on my experience. It will be nice but not effortless like a turbo engine. Even with a turbo the N55 felt fairly limp to me in stock tune. Since I've done stuff to it then now it's moving the car along with some gusto. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Steve84N

[bmwmike]

16 hours ago, Steve84N said:

I've had two cars with the N52 engine in, an e91 330i and e86 Z4 Coupe, both manuals. The 330i felt slow and the weight really dulled the performance whereas it really suited the Z4. 

The N55 in the 535i pre-LCI does lack top end punch because the boost falls off a cliff after 5krpm. The later cars with electronic instead of pneumatic wastegate also gained a larger compressor wheel and larger diameter exhaust downpipe so they make better top end power. 

I wouldn't pick an NA six in a 5 Series based on my experience. It will be nice but not effortless like a turbo engine. Even with a turbo the N55 felt fairly limp to me in stock tune. Since I've done stuff to it then now it's moving the car along with some gusto. 

 

Comparing a manual 330i and auto 530i is like comparing apples and oranges. Auto is a very different prospect. I agree a manual f10 with NA engine might feel sluggish (dunno, haven't driven one).

Edited November 25, 2022 by bmwmike

[Steve84N]

An auto doesn't make the engine more powerful, usually less so if anything. If I had to have a 530i I'd want a manual, autos generally keep the revs too low, or too high in Sport. 

[duncan-uk]

Depends what you want of it. The f11 isn’t a sports car. IMHO it’s too big to be fun but midrange punch of the 535i is good but I find the 8 speed to fussy. It’s a good box but I think im just not an auto guy. Can’t be all things to all men. I am sort of keeping an eye out for a manual e61 530i…

[bmwmike]

13 hours ago, Steve84N said:

An auto doesn't make the engine more powerful, usually less so if anything. If I had to have a 530i I'd want a manual, autos generally keep the revs too low, or too high in Sport. 

You need the revs higher with a nasp as they produce power through revs.

An auto does equate to more torque at the road wheels because they have a different final drive ratio and 2 more gears.  So yes you are right in that there is no more power from the engine but the engine output torque is increased via the transmission in an auto - literally what a torque converter stator does: multiplies torque, plus the 2 extra gears, plus the different final drive ratio. Add to this a zf8 will change gear quicker than most manual boxes but that's sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

Hope that helps explain why a manual and auto comparison for the exact same engine (yours was n52 anyway) is apples and oranges.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by bmwmike

[Steve VH]

I would imagine the top gear ratio on the 8 speed automatic is unchanged, and that the intermediate gear ratios are just closer together, hence 8 gears instead of 6 gears.

[Steve84N]

On 26/11/2022 at 10:21, bmwmike said:

You need the revs higher with a nasp as they produce power through revs.

An auto does equate to more torque at the road wheels because they have a different final drive ratio and 2 more gears.  So yes you are right in that there is no more power from the engine but the engine output torque is increased via the transmission in an auto - literally what a torque converter stator does: multiplies torque, plus the 2 extra gears, plus the different final drive ratio. Add to this a zf8 will change gear quicker than most manual boxes but that's sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

Hope that helps explain why a manual and auto comparison for the exact same engine (yours was n52 anyway) is apples and oranges. 

N52 or N53 is immaterial. It was sluggish in a car less heavy than a 5.

The 8spd in the two top gears will have less torque to the wheels. Torque convertors only multiply torque when they're slipping, but often during driving they'll be locked up. Whilst the gears are a bit shorter in the lower ratios it's not enough to make an N52 an exciting prospect in a big 5 Series. In Comfort the gearbox won't be making good use of the revs needed and in Sport it's a bit overzealous, so a manual gives you better control unless you use the auto in manual mode. A car like the 5 suits a torquey engine that doesn't need to be revved out. 

On 26/11/2022 at 12:28, Steve VH said:

I would imagine the top gear ratio on the 8 speed automatic is unchanged, and that the intermediate gear ratios are just closer together, hence 8 gears instead of 6 gears.

Nope. I looked into this when buying my F11 535i. The manual 6th gear is similar to 7th on the 8spd, then 8th is longer again. The gears up to 7th are shorter for better acceleration, albeit with a lot of cog swapping. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Steve84N

[bmwmike]

1 hour ago, Steve84N said:

N52 or N53 is immaterial. It was sluggish in a car less heavy than a 5.

The 8spd in the two top gears will have less torque to the wheels. Torque convertors only multiply torque when they're slipping, but often during driving they'll be locked up. Whilst the gears are a bit shorter in the lower ratios it's not enough to make an N52 an exciting prospect in a big 5 Series. In Comfort the gearbox won't be making good use of the revs needed and in Sport it's a bit overzealous, so a manual gives you better control unless you use the auto in manual mode. A car like the 5 suits a torquey engine that doesn't need to be revved out. 

 

 

Yep, exactly, zf8 in manual mode, didn't think I needed to mention that to get the most out of the box. Correct that 6th on zf8 is 1:1. 

Thanks

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by bmwmike

[duncan-uk]

I'm surprised its as high as that, feels like you need to drop to 5th or even 4th on the paddles to get any appreciable engine braking.

[bmwmike]

1 hour ago, duncan-uk said:

I'm surprised its as high as that, feels like you need to drop to 5th or even 4th on the paddles to get any appreciable engine braking.

 

Yerp - 4th is usually 1:1 in a manual, and you'd not use 4th to engine brake in a manual, more like 2nd, or maybe 3rd depending on speed ?  So i think 4th on a zf8 is probably nearer 3rd on a manual or thereabouts. The ratios are squashed together and 7th/8th is overdrive, the 1-6 are 1-4 on a manual. Hence my previous points, really. 🤓

 

 

[Steve84N]

The final drive may be different on a 530i but there's no way a gearbox makes up for another 100lb/ft of torque on the 535i, more if tuned.

The auto gives you shorter 1-5, then the 1:1 gear is 6th instead of 5th but the final drive makes it a slightly longer ratio, with 7 similar to 6 and 8 very long. 

[bmwmike]

9 minutes ago, Steve84N said:

The final drive may be different on a 530i but there's no way a gearbox makes up for another 100lb/ft of torque on the 535i, more if tuned.

 

 

Riiight, but we were discussing your comparison of a manual n52 e90 330i (presumably 250bph?) with an auto f10 n53 272ps?

The n55 is a great engine no doubt and shuffles the f10 a whole half a second faster than the n53 (auto vs auto) so there is little arguing on out right performance. I've only driven one and that wasn't for long, but personally i felt the n53 was more lively and eager to rev out than the n55, which being a turbo is not surprising.

Manual n55 535i would be interesting to drive. I think it would work very well, provided the gear change was actually decent.

Anyway, all good, hope the f11 535i is treating you well. I miss my f10, not replaced it yet.

[Steve84N]

@bmwmikethe N52 in a 330i is also 272hp, it's about 260hp in the Z4 due to the intake not being as good. Hence why I said N52 or N53 is immaterial.

Someone asked about a 528i and you rightly pointed out the (even rarer) 530i, although there is an F11 manual 530i for sale at the moment on Autotrader. I maintain that it's not an unfair comparison having experienced the engine in two cars, both lighter than a 5. It only felt decent in the Z4, so putting it in an even heavier 5 would feel too sluggish for me. An auto box isn't going to make enough difference. 

I suggested that the turbo six is better suited to both the weight and demeanour of a 5 Series. Mine is a manual so although the gears are longer, at least in 6th you're actually running higher revs than the auto and right in the peak torque region.

The N55 doesn't feel that keen stock and will never rev like the N52. I also had an M54 in a 330Ci and that didn't rev like the N52 either. I loved the N52 but it feels best placed in a lighter car. When you tune an N55 it feels (and is) much stronger to the point where it carries the weight of the car effortlessly. Think high 300s for power and mid 400s for torque.