F10/11 getting needy in old age!

[Steve VH]

Is it me, or is the F10/11 car proving to be very needy, unreliable? now they are no longer in the first flush of youth, corrosion, water leaks, electrical gremlins, mechanical faults etc.

[Matthew]

Not unlike any other car. The Yellow Grommet water ingress is a well-trodden path and nothing new as the car gets older. The corrosion issue around the door frame, another issue, well documented and not necessarily age related. Electrical gremlins, which ones? And mechanical faults, I'm only seeing typical suspension bush deterioration, EGR faults that BMW is acknowledging and fixing. What specific issues are you seeing?

[E39mad]

Ours is 12 years old next month and done 87000 miles - 9 years with us. It has been to date the most reliable car I have ever owned and not had a warranty once ran out. The only issues I have had to deal with other than routine servicing are replacement rear suspension airbags, a blocked washer bottle, replacement electrical chip for one headlight and doing the yellow grommet (although I did not have a leak). Far more reliable than the E39 which I also had for over 9 years.

[Percha]

Mine is 9 years old, 83000 miles I have owned around 3.5 years and its been very reliable.

Tyres, brake discs and pads, rear air bags, all 4 doors covered by BMW for corrosion and repainted, yellow grommet cleared myself (1hour job), returns 530miles to the tank and around 36-38MPG. All in all its been very enjoyable experience, and all those bits I mention are for me general wear and tear, niggles etc.

EGR Cooler recall is next week for me, again common on many diesels of this era.

[neil.o]

// begin ramble as I'm trapped on a video call and cannot escape until its over //

My guess is there is an increase in perceived issues due to

1. oldest F10s are twelve years old now
2. many F10/F11,  including my own, have sat idle for a large portions of time during covid lockdowns over last couple of years

both 1 and 2 will increase frequency of issues popping up for any manufacturer,  I don't think its exclusive to F10.  Though I am geeky enough to want to see reliability statistics versus rivals like benz/audi/lexus to be sure....  I am actually surprised my own hasn't kicked up more issues given she has averaged only 2k miles per year for the last 3ish years and prior to that she did 12-15k a year.

For what its worth, I think the F10 is a stunning all-rounder mixing handling / comfort / interior quality / practicality / depth of engineering in this day and age  / reliability....  the list goes on.  I think the F10 is remarkably reliable especially considering it's a very heavy car yet is relatively efficient and can get a proper move on when required.  She is E38 7-series kind of mass and size, yet is faster, more fuel efficient and safer. If someone told me 20 years ago that I'd be driving a car that is superior to the E38 7series without winning the lottery I would not have believed them !

I don't think Benz / Audi  / Lexus / Jag / VW etc have anything superior in all categories at same price point,  maybe better in one or two categories but also way behind in three or four others.

I get a bit annoyed when I read about ANOTHER issue with EGR, or see F10 parts prices unnecessarily expensive, or snafus like the yellow grommet, but no car is ever exempt from every issue. There may be some Toyota that proves me wrong, but it'll be the exception that proves the rule.  The 1980s 1990s BMWs were built to a higher relative standard in their day, I've worked on some and have seen the changes,  but the modern ones are still way ahead efficiency and safety-wise which is hard to turn down with passengers or kids in the car. Still wish I had a big engined E30 or E28 though.

I read a book recently that gave great insight to the car industry "Inside the Machine" by David Twohig    - OK this guy worked for Nissan/Renault/Alpine and not BMW, but he worked at both low and high levels and I've a new found respect for how cars get developed and manufactured, and for F10 quality !

// ramble over. this forum again saved my sanity //

 

[Cadwell Parker]

I bought my F11 530D in Feb 2019 with 59000 miles when it was less than 5 years old. Since then it has been in regular more or less daily use covering more or less 25000 miles a year and is now approaching 14800.

I've been quite happy with it. Aside from replacing worn out brake and suspension parts as you would with any car it had an issue with the alarm siren/module which I had to replace, the air suspension got a replacement compressor and I had the coolant Thermostat replaced soon after getting the car remapped as it seemed to be running a bit cooler and I wanted to make sure it was holding on to as much heat as possible. I do have a persistent warning to do with the pedestrian protection system which I still need to get to the bottom of and had corrosion on all 4 doors repaired under warranty, which yes, granted has been a common issue well documented on the old forum.

The yellow grommet issue has caused a lot of problems for people resulting from a really poor piece of design on BMWs part and is the one thing I've found really lets the car down from being otherwise excellent. Thankfully I've avoided the worst of it by modifying the cover to allow water to drain freely away from the grommet area.

All things considered I'm really impressed with my F11 and glad I bought it.

@Steve VHWhich issues are you referring to?

[Steve VH]

I'm not calling out any specific issues in particular, but just wanting real world feedback from F10 owners on their ownership of the car, would they buy another, how does it compare with previous models, I wouldn't rule out buying one at some future point a 528i, or a 530d.

The F10/11 section of the forum is far and away busier than any other of the 5 series range, 643 posts!!

[JCP]

My 2014 F11 had a new pair of air bags, two EGR cooler recalls (one replacement) and a new EGR valve done by me. Also I think needed a new O2 sensor but I didn't get around to that. That aside only tyres and wiper blades really. The old girl had 96k miles on her when I chopped her in the other week for a G31. Not too bad really.

[neil.o]

56 minutes ago, Steve VH said:

just wanting real world feedback from F10 owners on their ownership of the car, would they buy another, how does it compare with previous models

prepare for death by bullet points.... (!)

I think the F10 and F11 are the most complete cars me + the missus have ever had. Previous was mix of Seat, Audi (pre-pillock phase), other BMWs and a heavy yankee V8 when we lived over there.  The only thing I really miss from previous models is the neater handling and cheaper maintenance of older model 3 series I had in the past.

2011 F10 520d auto:

• 58k to 101k miles with me, still going,  owned from jun 2017 to now, 5.5ish years

Normal consumables:

• Oil + filter changes,  Brake fluid, Fuel Filters,  Wipers, pollen filter, etc usual consumables

Other maint:

• 1 set rear pads,
• 2x rear springs
• 2x front control arms
• Multiple suspension alignments

Other notes:

• Coming to end of third set of tyres since new
• On original front discs and pads (!), original rear discs
• Focal front speaker upgrade 
• 50mpg out of most recent 500+mile tank  - measured old fashioned way

 

2011 F11 520d manual

• 62k to 113k miles with us,    owned from jun 2017 to dec 2021, 4.5 years

Normal consumables:

• Oil + filter changes,   Brake fluid, Fuel Filters,  Wipers, pollen filter, etc usual consumables

Other maint / notes:

• 2 x Front brake disc + pads
• 2 x rear suspension airbags
• Bootlid release handle
• Recall for flexdisc by BMW
• 2x summer tyres
• 4x winter tyres + rims  - now on the F10
• Didn't do but probably needed 4x new dampers
• Deffo needed 4x tyres and rear discs/pads at trade-in.
• Travall dog guard, boot liner etc for the ever shedding lab

Would definitely get another. Still think the F11 is a better overall product compared to our current F15 except for the height (the main reason we got the F15).  Though finding low mileage examples are getting rare near me, especially well-specced or well-cared for examples. Covid has turned the used market upside down. Pales in significance versus the difficulties lots of people have had over past 3ish years, but you folks know what I mean.

 

[Cadwell Parker]

2 hours ago, Steve VH said:

I'm not calling out any specific issues in particular, but just wanting real world feedback from F10 owners on their ownership of the car, would they buy another

OK, I misread the thrust of your original post.

I have no real complaints about the F11 apart from the yellow grommet issue and would definitely buy another but will probably keep my current one and run it as far into the ground as I can before running such a vehicle becomes financially unsustainable.

[Matthew]

18 hours ago, Steve VH said:

I'm not calling out any specific issues in particular, but just wanting real world feedback from F10 owners on their ownership of the car, would they buy another, how does it compare with previous models, I wouldn't rule out buying one at some future point a 528i, or a 530d.

The F10/11 section of the forum is far and away busier than any other of the 5 series range, 643 posts!!

I hope you aren't interpreting the 643 posts for the F10/11 as evidence of these cars having more issues. This forum rose from the ashes of the previous one where there were many more posts on the Exx threads than the Fxx threads. But those were built up over a longer period of time. As cars age, people move on, so the feedback slows down. The F10/11 cars are more topical as there are more of them on the road at this time with the oldest being 13 years old as compared to the oldest E60 which is nearly 20 years old. So, the 643 posts are only indicative of the people active on the forum and not of "F10/11 getting needy in old age!" 

[Bavarian Cortina Fan]

On 15/11/2022 at 13:35, neil.o said:

For what its worth, I think the F10 is a stunning all-rounder mixing handling / comfort / interior quality / practicality / depth of engineering in this day and age  / reliability....  the list goes on.  I think the F10 is remarkably reliable especially considering it's a very heavy car yet is relatively efficient and can get a proper move on when required. 

X2

Great cruiser and still pleasing to the eye

It’s a 2 tonne car and still returns remarkable fuel consumption (520d) in supreme comfort

Dont forget many of these cars now have star ship mileage, so I think you can expect a few bits to drop off…

[Bavarian Cortina Fan]

On 15/11/2022 at 13:35, neil.o said:

I read a book recently that gave great insight to the car industry "Inside the Machine" by David Twohig    - OK this guy worked for Nissan/Renault/Alpine and not BMW, but he worked at both low and high levels and I've a new found respect for how cars get developed and manufactured, and for F10 quality !

 

 Used to work with Dave - will have to have a read.
Development process is the same for all cars, just the attributes change in terms of targets/expectations

[marko530d]

Had mine since February 2020 paid £6250 with 150k Currently 171k.(highest mileage car we have owned) 525d 3.0d f10 2011 most reliable bmw I have owned no rubber grommet for me or egr.

We did replaced rear spring and heater fan was into bmw for corrosion.

 

Normal servicing at bmw and disks and pads all round stuck new battery on old 1 was fine its never missed a beat.

Passed all 3 mots in my ownership without an advisory.

Edited November 16, 2022 by marko530d

[BobA]

My experience with our E and F (and G for that matter) series cars was that they’ve been equally reliable even though the amount of “tech” has steadily increased. It’s natural as cars get towards 10 years, 100k or whatever that things will wear out and need replaced and in general I think the forum reflects that. I think also there’s been a bit of a steady drift over the years away from weekend maintenance and towards weekend polishing and fixing when it breaks so it says a bit for the cars that despite a (generally) reduced level of care and increased complexity they maintain such a high level of reliability. Every model has its weak spots so the yellow grommet, airbags, corrosion  etc. hit the headlines but overall I’m pretty satisfied.

[Chowser]

I've run my 2014 F11 520D SE since new, first 4 years as a company car and then bought it as it was low miles and I had looked after it. 

Other than routine servicing it has had

Front disks and pads at 50,000 miles

Rear air bags at 5 years, 53,00 miles

EGR recall

Manual gearbox and diff oil changed at 60,000 (preventative)

Fan blower motor at 7 years, 71,000 miles

rear pads at 83,000

Interim oil change every 9000 miles

Auxiliary damper has gone on one side so will probably change the shocks at the same time when I get round to doing that.

Currently on 86,00, long term MPG is 46 but have slowed down a bit since fuel got more expensive and often see mid 50's now.

Been a great car that I still enjoy driving, looking at some of the mileages on here I've got plenty more years life.

 

[neil.o]

On 16/11/2022 at 18:00, Bavarian Cortina Fan said:

Used to work with Dave - will have to have a read.
Development process is the same for all cars, just the attributes change in terms of targets/expectations

@Bavarian Cortina Fan If you're still in touch, a friendly hello from a happy reader and countryman would be appreciated !!

I'm an engineer that has worked mainly in manufacturing (pharma not automotive) and when I think of what it takes to get any large project through the key phases in my industry, and the level of handholding the equipment often requires in commercial production,   I'm amazed at how certain models appear out of Munich/Dingolfing/etc. inside a 6ish(?) year development window to get to manufacturing and still be reliable.

The F10 is prime example: its development over the E60 seems a very large jump forward... though I am clearly biased!!... I still think the F10 would make money by some manufacturer if it were released on the market today.

 

10 hours ago, BobA said:

I think also there’s been a bit of a steady drift over the years away from weekend maintenance and towards weekend polishing and fixing when it breaks so it says a bit for the cars that despite a (generally) reduced level of care and increased complexity they maintain such a high level of reliability.

@BobAcompletely agree, and I think part of the reason people perform less maintenance is because of increased reliability (chicken / egg,  I know)

[E39mad]

Yes I'd have another one.

The 520d is more than capable and can deliver astonishing fuel consumption - I think the best our F11 did was 58.5mpg over 225 miles. No stop start on my early car either.

The only thing that I would want is VDC as the ride can still be poor especially on badly patched roads. I run 17" none RFT's on our SE and it's just about acceptable but can still crash on poor roads. The optional Comfort Seats are absolutely superb and a must for me now that I in my mid 50's.

[Sir Anthony Regents Park]

They are a nice car and quite robust - the timing chain is the main weak point although hard driven 530d/535d's can knock crank bearings out. The N57 is nowhere near as strong as the previous M57 and ditto the N47. Diesel pumps can go tits up and wipe out the injectors but it's not that common. The eight speed auto is eight times better than the old six speed slusher in every respect including longevity.

Electrically they are a bit better than the E60. F11 rear suspension airbags are so shit as to be a joke - failing at three or four years old? Really? Things like diff oil seals leaking are more common and a complete pain in the arse to fix as the driveshafts are now one piece requiring suspension dismantling.

Early F10's are almost at the banger stage now though, high mileage money pits best avoided.

Could be worse though. It could be a W211 E Class Merc that sounds like a tractor, rides like a horse and cart and has a steel rear subframe that looks like it came off the Titanic - google rusty E Class subframes and see how they fall to bits. When a 2014 Merc is failing an MOT on subframe rot, you know they're a bit rubbish. 

 

[Steve VH]

Whatabout the recall for rusty doors, timing chains should last the life of the car, and not be a consumable, as they appear on the N47.

[Matthew]

40 minutes ago, Steve VH said:

Whatabout the recall for rusty doors,

There is no recall. If you find corrosion, you need to take it to BMW under their 12 year anti perforation warranty  

 

40 minutes ago, Steve VH said:

 

timing chains should last the life of the car, and not be a consumable, as they appear on the N47.

This is a well known issue on the N47 engines and not necessarily age related. More regular oil changes may reduce the risk. 

[Steve VH]

I actually think the F10 is a very nice looking 5 series, it's a big car, but  still manages to look nimble, closer to the E39 in looks than the E60 was, which I don't like, equally the G30 which just looks to me like an overweight 7 series gone wrong, and anything but nimble.

[marko530d]

8 hours ago, Sir Anthony Regents Park said:

Early F10's are almost at the banger stage now

How ddddare you .... 

[Sir Anthony Regents Park]

7 hours ago, Steve VH said:

I actually think the F10 is a very nice looking 5 series, it's a big car, but  still manages to look nimble, closer to the E39 in looks than the E60 was, which I don't like, equally the G30 which just looks to me like an overweight 7 series gone wrong, and anything but nimble.

I like the G30, especially as an SE with small wheels. It's extraordinarily refined - the 520i with the turbo four is soooo quiet, and very good on fuel.

For me it's the sweet spot in the BMW range and probably the last decent looking car they make. 

[Andy5150]

Interesting thread this - quite close to my heart as my 5 is the first used car I’ve run since having company cars between 2005 and 2021 so i‘m in uncharted territory running a car beyond 4 years old from my own pocket.

I’ve got a 2015 F11 Luxury bought in March 21 with 72k and now on 94k.

Aside from regular servicing an interim 9k oil changes the only notable work it’s had is new rear airbags which I expected t some point and happened bang in the average 80k miles that seems common for most people. I tried to save cash and bought some £30 eBay versions which started leaking within 4 months so bit the bullet and went for Arnotts which have been perfect. Otherwise it was preventive work on the yellow grommet cover and 3 of the doors being repaired by BMW on the anti corrosion warranty for the usual bubbling.

Otherwise it’s been perfect so far and feels modern and tight, almost as though it’s still brand new. I’m beginning to feel a little of that ‘rattly’ feel through the steering suggesting some bushes wearing on the front suspension but its only recently.

mine is well specced with comfort seats, active leds and the professional idrive and generally feels like it can hold its own with more modern cars. I think this is a testament to how ahead of its time the F11/10 was in some ways. The only thing that tempts me away is a G31 but that’s one for the future. For now I’m hopeful that my F11 will continue to feel tight and modern for several years to come.

Andy